Exactly how does the Hauppauge -150 card work

OK, I know that there is built-in hardware encoding on this card -- and I know that the claims are that you can go directly to a DVD disc, in MPEG-2 format, with this card.

But is that literally true.
1. Do you really go directly from the card to the DVD (MPEG-2).
2. Or does the data go to a hard drive (MPEG-2 format), to be burned later.
3. Or is the data buffered on the hard drive, on it's way to the DVD (slight modification to #1 above).

If #1 (or #3) is true, then I guess I would have to read the file back in if I wanted to use an MPEG editor on it -- no big deal, but I just wanted to know how this thing operates and what to expect.

Thanks.

 

It captures and encodes the video to mpeg-2, dvd compliant file, and saves it on your hard drive.
You then have to author it, and burn it.
It doesn't go directly to disk like tivo, because most of us smart Hauppauge card owners like to edit the commercials first <wink>

 

OK, that explains a lot to me.

You did mention that you "have" to author it -- do you "have" to author it -- or was that just to get rid of those pesty commercials.

Also then, what is the main difference between the Hauppauge PCI card (-150, for instance) and the Canopus device (-110, for instance). Don't both of them put an encoded MPEG-2 file on your hard drive -- that you can either burn directly to a DVD -- or do some editing first with a MPEG editor, and then burn it -- or author it, and then burn it, or both.

 

Getting rid of commercials is editing.
Authoring is the process of taking the mpeg-2, and making it into vobs, bups, and ifos. All found inside the VIDEO_TS folder on a DVD.
By DVD Spec, a .vob can be no larger than 1 gig, thus a 4 gig movie will have 4 vobs (actually 5, but that's another story).

The Hauppauge card captures using hardware to encode, directly to mpeg-2 format and stores it on your hard drive. Edit, Author and burn.

The Canopus captures using hardware, to DV-AVI (digital video avi) format, via firewire, which is stored on your hard drive. It must then be encoded to mpeg-2 (here's where the 40 hour thingy comes into play), and THEN authored and burned.
You can edit either before, or after the encoding process.

 

OK, great -- sorry, I forgot the Canopus file was AVI, not MPEG-2 -- I guess I was just thinking that both are hardware encoding devices.

Could you give me an idea of the differences in Quality one might experience between the Hauppauge output (MPEG-2) and the Canopus (AVI, and then encoded to MPEG-2 -- let's say no editing for now) -- and I am speaking from the viewpoint that the source input is VHS tape -- and would the answer change if the input was something different.

Why would one pick one over the other -- there must be benefits of both.

I feel like I am getting close on this.

 

For VHS, the hauppauge is overkill. Even it can do dvd quality video from TV, if the signal is good.
If your source was a Digital video cam, or other high quality input, then the Canopus would be better for keeping the quality (paired with the right encoder).

 

rebootjim-

The input will be from an old VHS camera, or will more probably be from a VCR player. The tapes were mostly full 6-hour VHS tapes, recorded at the high speed 2-hour rate -- hence 2 hour tapes.

When you say the Hauppauge is overkill, do you mean that:

1. the Hauppauge card will give you a better MPEG-2 than the Canopus approach

2. or do you mean the the Happauge card is more than adequate to capture the quality of a VHS tape and that the Canopus device would only be needed if one needed to capture a higher-quality digital input.

Somewhere, I got the impression that the Canopus hardware device capture approach coupled with a high quality AVI->MPEG-2 encoding would get you a higher quality picture than the Happauge hardware card approach. On the other hand, if the Hauppauge card is plenty good enough for VHS analog tape input, I can go with that (unless the Canopus approach is clearly superior in quality).

I guess I am just trying to understand the differences in quality between these two approaches.

And, are there certain encoders that are considered better than others -- and what is an example of a high quality AVI->MPEG encoder.

Thanks.

 

rebootjim.... Have passed the 300 mark in tapes recorded over to DVD's. Finally came up with an error on the last one using WinDV. Never had a dropped frame in all that time. Finished up using DVIO. A nice program, but not the polish of WinDV. Again, thank you for your sage advice and direction. Before I join you in the Hauppauge route, I plan on using my ATI All-In-Wonder 9800 card and see what the results are.

rnsmithad.... This is not meant to sound sarcastic, but as one Texan to another, most of your questions have been answered previously during the past three weeks. I gather you've been riding to many bulls getting ready for the PVR. Just a quick word on the equipment required to accomplish transferring VHS tape to DVD.
The Canopus ADVC-100/110 using WinDV (free program)will give you a high quality AVI. Just remember your final quality will not exceed your original source.
Canopus Procoder Express to change the AVI to Mpeg. This program will also handle the bitrate and a number of other items i.e. NTSC/PAL. Just check the proper box for the number of DVD's required or change the bitrate to keep it on ONE. Remember, the lower the bitrate, the lower the quality. Normally 120 minutes is a VHS tape at high quality which gives the best viewing quality. The bitrate for 120 minutes will be approximately in the range of 4853. The final program is is DVD-Lab. This will finalize and mux your download for the DVD. Also this is where the movie (video and Audio), chapters are assembled. This program will also burn the movie to the DVD. You can also use Nero or whatever you prefer to manually burn. There are guides for the above programs on VideoHelp.Com. The programs and equipment I have listed is probably the less costly route for a quality end product. It will be in your eye and judgement as to what you need to do and purchase. .. Texas Outlaw

 

I meant #2.
If all the tapes were 2 hour, and you wanted the best possible quality, and you have the time, get the canopus combination.

If the tapes are mostly 6 hour, and you want the best possible quality, and you DON'T have that much time, get the hauppauge.

The hardware mpeg-2 quality of the hauppauge rivals that of most software encoders, with notable exceptions.
Canopus Procoder, combined with the ADVC-110 will give superb quality.
My other choice would be Mainconcept.


Remember this one, most important point: You cannot improve the quality of a VHS tape. The best you can hope for, is to maintain as much quality as possible.
This involves some serious hardware, if you want the absolute best.
A JVC-6000 series SVHS player. Good shielded cables. Canopus ADVC-110 (or 300). Canopus Procoder (not express). DVDLab Pro or Sonic Scenearist to author.
Most of that is out of the average hobbiest's price range, so we have other options.
The Hauppauge cards do extremely well on VHS, and it's fast, and efficient. They are also forgiving of video glitches, poor quality tape, etc., and can even clean up a source, with the right tweaks.

What you buy, depends on how much money you have, how much time you have, and how much patience you have to learn all you need to know, to get the best finished DVD's.

Listen to T-Outlaw, he's been there, done that, and got the T-Shirt, mostly on perseverance, and sage advice from me, and others on this forum, and knows what he's talking about.
I only offered the quicker solution of a Hauppauge card, because your first post mentioned time constraints, and simplicity as more important (or equally) as quality.

 

rebootjim & T_Outlaw -- Thanks a lot for your help here.

I don't have unlimited funds or time, but I have found out from experience that getting stuff that works, and works well, is most often well worth the money. What I have ended up doing is ordering both the Hauppauge card and the Canopus 110 device. I will end up giving one to my father-in-law and keeping the other for myself -- depending upon which is the easiest for him to handle (as well as the editing and burning).

To be prepared for which way we go, I have put together (video edited) a movie with the Microsoft Movie Maker 2 and another one with the Womble MPEG-2 Video Wizard (trial copy) -- and I will probably try out the VideoReDo MPEG editor also -- are there any other editors that you might suggest I try.

I am right now, tonight, struggling, really struggling with the DVDLab authoring program -- boy, what a challenge this is. I am sure that this program has everything I need, and probably more. I did create a test video and it works, sort of, but I really have no idea how I got a workable product out of it.

Additionally, now I want to understand this bitrate stuff as well as the codecs stuff. This is a side issue, but the videos out of my father-in-laws new Kodac digital camera come out in some kind of MPEG-4 (or MOV format according to Windows) format, but when translated to an AVI file via the Apple Quick Time Pro player, they came out really crappy, really pixelated (if that is a word) with lots of black dots (missing pixels?) in the AVI file after the translation -- so I guess I need to find a better MOV->AVI translator/encoder -- so if you have additional suggestions here fire away -- anxious to learn more.

Thanks.

 

rnsmithad.... Again, you are reading and NOT absorbing the posts sent to you. Go back to my last post above rebootjim. I said go to videohelp.com for guides especially on DVD-Lab. They have this guide in a step by step listing in a better format than from the original source. DVD-Lab is as easy as you make it. In fact, it can be interesting as well as fun just finding different ways to improve the tasks..... Texas Outlaw

 

Try the one's that come with the hardware you just bought. VideoReDo is probably the easiest to use, but still a bit expensive (IMHO). Cuttermaran is free, but requires elementary streams.

Try this guide, written by yours truly
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=220092

If you're going to put these movies on DVD, then DO NOT convert from MOV to AVI. Go straight from MOV to MPEG-2. Most good encoders can do this easily, without the pixelization you're seeing.
Quicktime is NOT a good program to do conversions/re-encodes with.
Tmpgenc, Canopus, Mainconcept, and CCE can all do reasonably good MOV to MPG encodes.

 

rebootjim-

Thanks for the DVDLab educational link -- it helped out a lot and I got a DVD out that worked -- didn't actually burn the DVD, but did play the output file on my WMP10. I am still struggling with this program though.

Since you have had experience with this program (I am using DVDLab, not the Pro) -- I want to sneak in a comment and a basic question about that program: the comment is that the UnDo really works strangely, or maybe it doesn't work -- it doesn't UnDo everything you do -- for instance -- Remove Background -- if I do that, I can't undo it, it's gone. This is kind of bad because I use UnDos a lot just figuring out how things work.

Anyway, the questions is -- when I create extra menus or movies, I can't delete them -- I have looked all over the program and can't find any way at all to delete these extra entities -- it is just driving me crazy. Can you help me out with that -- and then no more DVDLab questions, here at least.

Should be getting some of my hardware (Hauppauge or Canopus) tomorrow -- can't wait -- hope to be trying it out this weekend -- will be getting back to you with comments, or asking for help.

 

Yeah, it's calle the DEL key on your keyboard <grin>
Just hilight what you don't want, and hit DEL.

Let us know how the new hardware works out.

 

Got my Haupauge -150 capture card last Friday and installed it on Saturday. First of all, I was a little disappointed that the card did not have 2 standard stereo in jacks for the audio (must have not looked at the picture carefully or got it mixed up with another card). Luckily I had a minijack that I jerryrigged with jumpers to connect the audio input.

When I first hooked up the card (jerryrigged with 2 audio caples patched together with jumper connectors and the video was a long RGB cable and just used one of the connectors), the picture off of the TV was really bad (turned out to be bad cable connections).

Anyway, overall, I was not particularly impressed or liked the TV picture very well (still don't know why it doesn't look that good -- well some channels are OK, others are not) -- but the picture from a tape in the VCR was pretty darn good.

I captured 10 minutes off the VCR and the captured data looks pretty darn good also, EXCEPT, I think the colors are off. It is kind of like when your TV sometimes seems to be blurry or washed out when there is too much white on the screen -- except in this case, there is too much orange, and the picture appears to be washed out.

I will have to confess that I did not hook my VCR back up to my TV to see the difference between the TV picture and the captured picture on my PC -- because I have once again gotten sidetracked by all the software I am trying to learn, so I can teach all of this stuff to my father-in-law in a couple of weeks.

Some of the channels coming in off of the tuner connection are really, really crappy -- full of lines, waves, static, etc., totally unwatchable, and some are just fine -- I don't understand that either.

Documentation for the card isn't that good either -- and it doesn't match the screen WinTV2000 screen that I have come up on my PC -- don't understand all of that either, or for that matter, exactly how everything is supposed to work -- but as I said, I managed to capture about 10 minutes of pretty good video off of my VCR.

I just need to spend some more time with it, I guess.

I won't go into (yes I will) how B&H screwed up the shipment of my Canopus -110 device and instead shipped me a Fuji camera. Still waiting for that to be straightened out -- and they won't ship my correct order until they get the camera back -- which they wouldn't have even known about if I hadn't told them. I won't be using those guys again -- customer service is really lousy.

 

"minijack that I jerryrigged with jumpers to connect the audio input."

Use a mini-to-rca stereo Y cable. $3 or $4 dollars at Best Buy, RadioShack etc. http://www.audio-discounters.com/ph62089.html

"too much white on the screen"

In your WinTV200 window if you go to Preferences/Color you can adjust the Brightness, Saturation, Hue etc to your liking.

"well some channels are OK, others are not"

Are you feeding your cable-TV cable directly into the PVR-150? All your channels should look as clear as they would on your TV. If you still can't get some channels to come in clearly What you may want to try is using the tuner in your VCR. Plug your cable-TV into your VCR and let the VCR feed the video signal to the PVR-150.

 

moonrocks-

Thanks for the tips. I figured I would have to go to Radio Shack for the mini-Y-jack, but nice to hear Best Buy may have it.

Regarding the picture problems, the cable comes out of the wall to a 2-way splitter:
-- one split going to the set-top box, then to a switch, then to the VCR
-- the other split going to the switch above and then to the VCR

That way, I can record on the VCR directly off the cable, or out of the set top box, depending on which way the switch is set.

So I just unhooked the wire going from the switch to the VCR and hooked it to the Hauppauge card -- so essentially, the cable comes out of the wall, goes through a splitter, through a switch, and then to the tuner input on the card.

As I said, some channels look great and others are unviewable, one in particular, Channel 7, the TV Guide channel that displays/scrolls 2 hours of TV shows.

I'm glad you say they should all look the same, probably great. I have plenty of co-ax cables, so I will try your suggestion of running the cable back through the VCR.

 

OK, I am having mixed results with the Hauppauge card and created MPG files.

Last week, I did several sample captures and actually they all came out looking pretty good. And I was able to burn all of the files, either individually and bunched together, with NeroVision from Nero 6.

Last night I tried burning 3 files for real and now I have two problems:

1. I upgraded to Nero 7 and now the files won't burn with the NeroVision in Nero 7 -- they all abort shortly into the burning -- and strangly, the attempts at burning the single MPG files all quit playing at 29 seconds and the attempts at burning 3 MPG files won't play at all (although the menu is there and looks good). Need big time help on this one -- believed to be a Nero problem.

2. The 3 MPG files I burned last night with the Hauppauge card all have a low level hum in the audio -- and it is quite noticable in palyback, even playback of the raw mpg file, as well as on a DVD I burned with TMPGEnc Author (yeah, TMPG burns the MPG files, but Nero won't). Is there some sort of Audio adjustment that I must have changed or something -- where would the hum come from.

 

I can't help you with the Nero 7 issue. I'm still using Nero 6, which meets all my current needs. Usually when a major upgrade of a software package comes out I'll wait a while before upgrading to hear what issues other users encounter with the new software. Lots of times unexpected results occur after an upgrade. You may want to troubleshoot your way through the Nero 7 problem, or, for the time being uninstall it and go back to Nero 6.

As for the low-level audio hum, I wouldn't suspect the Hauppauge card as the likely culprit for that. There is a chance your dealing with Ground Loop Hum. I don't know for sure, I'm just suspecting that may be it.

Ground Loop Hum is an occassional problem encountered with improperly grounded audio/video equipment. It is especially annoying with some cable TV connections and can be difficult to elminate. The hum is often inaudible when watching your TV but it can be clearly heard if the signal is passed to your PC.

The easiest way to determine if you are dealing with Ground Loop Hum from your cable TV connection is to play a commercial VHS tape (something you haven't recorded off TV) in your VCR. First, make sure your cable TV cable is disconnected not only from your VCR but from *any* equipment that is plugged into a power source. Just go to the cable TV jack on the wall and disconnect the cable.

Then play your tape on your VCR and record a brief section of video to your PC. Listen for the hum. If you don't hear it, but when your cable TV cable is connected again and you play and record the tape to your PC you do hear it, then you have a Ground Loop Hum problem.

If you only want to backup VHS tapes to your PC then all you have to do is make sure your cable TV is disconnected when you do the backup and you won't have any audio hum. If you want to record something off of cable TV then you have to eliminate the Ground Loop Hum.

You can read more about Ground Loop Hum here:

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/

You can buy a Video Isolation transformer to remove Ground Loop Hum here:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=180-075

 

moonrocks-

Yes, I think you are probably right -- particularly since there doesn't seem to be any kind of audio volume control that I can find on the WinTV Record operation.

Not sure what a ground loop sounds like, but if I were a ground loop, I think I would sound like this sounds. I think I hooked up an extra cable since last week (when everything went well) -- so I will just do some more playing around with the cables.

By the way, in case you have ever heard of anything like this, I have failed to burn 11 -R's (9 Memorecks, 2 TYs), but successfully burned 2 Memorecks +R's) with Nero 7 -- but I did burn one -R with TMPGEnc Author, so it is not strictly/totally a -R problem -- very puzzling.