:: DVD rebuilder & return of the king... dissapointing results...

Double "D"

Perhaps you could copy and paste those well documented statements into a post for us to read here. I followed your links and the first one was referring to SVCD and mosquito noise, CCE does enode into VCD formats. In all of the links that I read they were using CCE 2.5 and although it wasn't mentioned I think that they were referring to CCE SP which is patched or cracked version and not reliable.

Example:

This recommendation comes from the SVCD area where you are operating at very low bitrates where avoiding mosquito noise is more important than a little color banding. For DVD bitrates above approx. 3000 kbps, definitely use a higher IQP.
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Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]

 

There is no debate except for in the shrink corner.
Since rebuilder is actually encoding then settings such as this become a concern. If you are unhappy with the settings then change them.

 

Double "D"

Perhaps not but you are using the information rather loosely which in effect renders it invalid.

 

"Mosquito noise" was a new one for me. Perhaps this is because I never dealt with the compressions required for SVCD's. I did do some research, and for those who might read this, mosquito noise is defined as follows:

"Distortion concentrated at the edges of objects, and further characterized by its temporal and spatial characteristics. Sometimes associated with movement, characteriized by moving artifacts and/or blotchy noise patterns."

One example is a sprial pattern appearing at the edge of lettering or sharp objects. A detailed technical discussion can be found at http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/docs/MosquitoNoise2000.pdf

I have conducted numerous tests with ROTK, and I have yet to witness this particular mosquito effect with RB-CCE (default settings), or any other DVD transcoder for that matter.

 

Donald, I'll say it for the last time:
This has nothing to do with DVD Shrink.
There is no DVD Shrink corner, camp, gang, posse, conspiracy,... involved.

I'm merely stating the fact I see what has been refered to as "mosquito noise" on the LOTR-ROTK CCE backups I made, and asking you and other DVD-RB/CCE users what settings are recommended to lower this effect while conserving as good a quality as possible.

Sophocles...

He does not say "mosquito noise" is not an issue for DVD (as opposed to SVCD), he says it is "not as important".

So that you get-off my back regarding DVD Shrink vs. CCE, I can tell you the results of my latest tests.
This afternoon, while at work, I made a backup of "Terminator 2" with DVD-RB/CCE.
I compared it to the DVD Shrink backup (59.2%) I made of the same title a couple of days ago (for comparison purposes).
In a few scenes, DVD-RB did yeld noticeably better results than Shrink "Sharp", and would in this case be my backup-tool of choice.

 

Double "D"

I'm not on your back, you bring these things on yourself. I did look at three of your comparisons and if I had more time (Getting ready for a concert) I'd give you my opinions. I'm absolutely certain that I picked which was DVD Shrink and which Was CCE and I based it on overall picture clarity. You still missed one major point in your response,the version of CCE (CCE 2.5 SP)they all used for their results. You will note the use of smilies.

He doesn't say it is either.

 

Double "D"

This is why I didn't want to get this started again. It's pointless we aren't going to change and perhaps neither will you. Let's stay friends and use what we know to help others. We have more to agree on than not and I will still direct new users to Shrink first. I'd hoped that you wouldn't see these two things (shrink, CCE)as being incompatible and perhaps joins us and we'll do the same with you.

 

I have never said nor thought these two backup methods were incompatible.
I told you I used CCE for my > 80% backups in the past.
In my last post, didn't I mention CCE would be my backup-tool of choice for Terminator 2?

Just so you're not suprise by my next post, it will contain examples of mosquito noise from my DVD-RB/CCE 2.6x Basic backup of LOTR-ROTK.

 

Double "D"

Chill a bit, I'm not your enemy and I did read what you posted clearly. I'm glad that you've found a reason to include CCE in your arsenal. I'm curious, on all of your examples the bit rate of CCE was about 17 to 20% higher than DVD Shrink. DVD shrink didn't vary at all it stayed at a steady 7500000 b/s while CCE fluctuated between 9000000 b/s and 9800000 b/s. What do you make of that and how it affected the outcome?

Off to a rock condert, CSN is playing. The tickets were almost $90 each, whatever happened to those $7 tickets? Must be getting old. LOL

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Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]

 

Enjoy the gig, Sophocles.

Doc...
http://www.dvdshrink.info/temp/tests/mosquito_noise.html

 

Thanks, vurbal, looking forward to your observations.

 

ddlooping

It's not really a choice in your case. You are a part of the shrink camp. It's not a bad thing but it does color your statements.

The threads you quoted were talking about appropriate settings for preferences not any defect in Rebuilder or CCE.

Your Idea of artifacts so far have been sharper pictures that weren't smoothed like shrink.

You have to know these are semantics. You like shrink output better. I like CCE.
Just be happy shrink is a top quality transcoder now.
CCE isn't going to get a bad rap because of your opinions. Let it go. We, the actual users of Rebuilder/CCE know what we like. I isn't smoothing unless it includes a bannana and some icecream.{

 

That's your opinion, not mine.
You either have not compared the CCE backup of LOTR-ROTK with the original, or your viewing equipment needs calibrating.

Let's wait for vurbal views on the matter.
Or is he part of the DVD Shrink camp too?

@vurbal,
The frame-captures were zoomed at 200% and had their white-level boosted.
It is from my v3.2 "Maximum Sharpness" tests:
http://www.dvdshrink.info/temp/beta/32maxsharp_DVDRB_7.zip
http://www.dvdshrink.info/temp/beta/original_charge.zip
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For DVD Shrink and related softwares guides and information, please visit http://www.dvdshrink.info[/small]

 

I have examined the noise you speak of. I noticed a distortion around the spears and flag in both pitures.
The distortion was increased on the compressed picture.
The distortion was even more pronounced on shrink from the same compilation in sharp.
Obviously you can't have perfection when compressed but the CCE was better.
I have no doubt that shrink smoothing can cover some of this up but I'm not inerested in coverup.

 

Donald, the reason why you make this a "DVD Shrink vs CCE issue" escapes me.

You prefer the CCE backup. Fine.
You do not see the noise induced by CCE. Fine.
You do see it but you also see even more noise generated by DVD Shrink. Fine.
(I don't: http://www.dvdshrink.info/temp/tests/mosquito_noise.html)
You think DVD Shrink "covers-up" its shortcomings by smoothing the video stream. Fine.

You do not want to help me find the optimum settings for CCE. Fine.
Now, please let others who are willing to help do so, and stop labelling me, assuming all I say or do is towards proving DVD Shrink is better than CCE, and argumenting about the virtues of CCE over Shrink.

*ddlooping from the DVD Shrink camp, to 64026402 in its DVD-RB/CCE ivory tower*


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For DVD Shrink and related softwares guides and information, please visit http://www.dvdshrink.info[/small]

 

You are the one that asked why shrink didn't show this distortion. The issue was made already.

For the record yesterday I had ran ROTK full disc with 20 quality_prec. It did smooth the distortion that was in shrink,cce and the original in this scene.
My preference would still be the sharper image. Did you do the same DD? You had indicated you would try the setting.

 

I had to motgage the tower to go live in the hood. {

I never said that cce made an original copy. I just believe that it can't be beat in the compression arena. I don't think a transcoder of any kind will. It is not just Shrink. Although it's close in many instances.

 

No I haven't tried yet, Donald, I spent the afternoon at work, while DVD-RB/CCE was making a backup of Terminator 2.

If yesterday you made a backup of LOTR-ROTK with 20 quality_prec, and it ended up being cleaner than my trial at 16, why the f***k didn't you say so in the first place, instead of claiming DVD-RB had nothing to do with the "mosquito noise" I was experiencing and that it was due to my IDE cables?????
Then going on saying you had never experienced this noise???

That's all I was hoping for when I raised the subject, a suggestion as to what setting to try!!