The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread

That's as much as I figured. I was afraid my processor would be a bottleneck with newer games. I mean, let's face it, Intel is MUCH faster. But to my surprise the particular resolution and IQ settings, the processor hasn't been an issue at all. In fact, I'd say I'm almost video bottlenecked in certain areas.

I would like to try a pair of 5850s before I decide on my CPU upgrade. It might turn out the ole Phenom II is enough for me. As long as the game can play properly, without a certain component limiting it too badly, I am fairly tolerant of framerates. 60FPS at least is preferred, but I can handle down to about 40-45 without cringing too bad. Bad Company 2 is our new Crysis-esque game, though it seems to scale much better. I wouldn't be surprised to average 40-45FPS with above average settings. Crysis runs at about 35-40, benches 41,just as a comparison. Other than a certain few new games, my setup has been almost overkill for everything

EDIT:

Oh yeah my HAF got here today. I'll be running in cool comfort tomorrow. Man do those 4870s get hot

 

Would this be a bad buy when looking for a gpu as powerful as integrated graphics (most demanding task would be short video clips) with two DVI ports? I was trying to avoid coolers that just dumped heat into the case but I can't imagine this putting off too much heat.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102880

TIA,

redmaw

 

Again, CPU demand is something of a personal performance 'taste' issue. A minimum of 50fps for example is not a minimum of 60fps, which in a multiplayer FPS I would really like. However, in this game such a frame rate is only doable if you use a smaller monitor with no AA and probably no DX10 rendering either. Granted, the sort of people who want high frame rates are often those who are willing to sacrifice visual detail (sometimes in the extreme) to get good performance, but on the other hand, people who aren't willing to pay for the graphics card to get a smooth frame rate on high settings may also not be willing to pay for the CPU to achieve the frame rate either. For new systems this is less an issue as most gamers are willing to put up the cost of an i5 system, which can easily handle almost any game at a very substantial frame rate (with the exception of Arma 2, which is plain ridiculous)
I agree with your upgrade plan. At 1920x1200 right now, there's much more of a gain to be had by upgrading to HD5850s than there is by upgrading your CPU. You won't really see the benefit of a faster CPU that much unless you do the graphics anyway.



If/when there's good CF scaling in Bad Company 2, two HD4870s stand to produce a minimum frame rate of up to about 50-55 at 1920x1200 in Bad Company 2. If there isn't, then there's clearly going to be a performance issue unless you can double the frame rate with a combination of reduced resolution or detail.
Unfortunately the only benchmark I have so far for the game doesn't distinguish between whether it is DirectX10 or Anti-Aliasing that causes the severe performance drop, since AA can only be applied in DirectX10 or DirectX11 mode. If the cause of the huge performance drop is Anti-Aliasing, then living without it wouldn't be so bad. If it's DX10/11 though, high-end graphics for the game is recommended, as from what I can tell from the translated article (Google translates Russian better than I thought) the graphical quality of the game is improved substantially by using DX11 over DX9.
While I'm hardly convinced that this improved graphical detail warrants a 150% increase in required graphics power, if it's a substantial improvement it's worth aiming for.
In general, the comparison is roughly that an HD5850 performs the same in DirectX10 with 8x AA as an HD5750, or 8800GT. The latter comparison is not strictly fair of course, since there is a 25% skew to nvidia cards, which is exactly what you'd expect the difference to be between the 9800 and 5750.
On that basis therefore, given that the HD4870 outperforms the HD5750 by 35% in Bad Company 2, what doesn't play nice on 4870s won't play nice on 5850s either, nor even 5870s.
If you were to set your sights on a minimum of 40fps, one HD5850 would be ample at 1920x1200 in DX9. To get there in DX10 with AA though. you might just get away with it with two HD5870s, if you drop to 1920x1080.
I haven't compared DirectX11 as the performance is only typically 5% lower.
As for the heat of the 4870s, try owning X2s With no chipset to worry about cooling with the i5 though, I've since cut my use of the powerful case fans, letting the X2s cool themselves, other than in the most demanding games.


Maw: Guessing there's supposed to be a link?

 

Yes there was, sorry about that. It's been a long day lol.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102880

 

You may as well buy one of these:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102877
It's much more up to date than the HD3650, cheaper, and will produce less heat. The HD3650 only has the larger heatsink because it's an older card, thus produces more heat.
The HD5450 is only two thirds as powerful as the HD3650, but if you're just watching videos, that's still ample.

 

Newegg shows that that card supports Software Crossfire. Eh? Never heard of that before. Sorta like hardware raid, and software raid I suppose.
They don't list it as Low profile ready. And yet the pic shows a low profile bracket. Neweggs organization is beginning to disappoint LOL! I sure wouldn't want the job though Another example is, searching for Lan Cards in the Add in card category is futile. They only list 2. I new that couldn't be true. Especially after running a search. So I searched through the networking tab. Voila LOL!

 

Yes, Crossfire via the chipset without needing any bridge connectors. To be honest, crossfire with cards like that is pointless, as by spending twice as much you can get a single card three times as fast.

This is almost exactly twice the price:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102871
and is actually 4.5x as powerful!

 

LOL! I wasn't suggesting buying cheapy cards. I've already made that mistake once. I don't intend on doing it again LOL!

 

I certainly do aim for a 60FPS minimum in most of my games. I can definitely tell the difference below 60. But certain games, Crysis and BC2 included, seem to run a bit smoother than the usual game at lower FPS. So if I can get at least a 30 minimum after all of this I will be happy with that.

You know me constantly tweaking and tweaking and tweaking. I'm sure I can find a happy medium for the game no matter what GPU I happen to be using at the time

Well that's what I thought. Especially because I love my AA, most of my games seem to stay fairly video dependent. I think an i5 or similar AMD is going to be inevitable. But for right now I want to stretch this Phenom II as far as I can. I certainly have the money and the will to do the upgrade, but I'm trying to procrastinate as long as possible

My new HAF seems to have sorted my temps issues quite handily. I still get some toasty numbers after a few hours of play. But Now I'm getting maybe 70*C vs maybe 80 before. This is read using GPU-Z on the hottest sensor(being the memory in my case). I didn't get the side panel with the fan but the other fans seem to have fairly balanced airflow. I'm still playing with it, but the HAF seems to be my dual graphics savior

The HAF is surprisingly very high quality. Like not that it surprised me that it was of good quality, but the actual level of quality itself is what got me. It has the same heavy gauge-type side panels as my Armor. Might I mention the cable management as well, which is insane. I seriously have never put together a build this clean and in such a short amount of time. I'm impressed.

My only complaint is the same that seems to plague all HAFs. My side panels are warped a bit so lining up the thumb screws is excruciating. Everything seems to go together without fuss, but I have to hold the panels down very tight in order to line up the holes and get the screws in. Actually a very minor complaint because my Armor does the same thing ;P

Oh yeah I have very large hands as well so the extra space was appreciated during the build. It is a bit wider and deeper than my Armor. Not by much, just a smidge. I had literally zero problems getting my hardware in and setting everything up. In contrast my Raidmax Smilodon is a bit cramped inside so it requires a lot of swearing and cut hands to work with. Oh yeah all rolled edges on the HAF. Very nice

The stance and physical features of the HAF give a very looming and imposing presence. I have a new favorite case

 

I don't doubt that for one nano second! It's by far the best purchase decision I've made yet!

 

While I wouldn't say I procrastinated, I did put off my CPU upgrade for a long time because it was a lot of cost to try and justify, given that I already started with a slightly more powerful CPU than yours. However, even I considered the upgrade of substantial benefit as it has improved performance in games more than I was expecting, as a result of the huge overclocks the i5s can take. Needless to say, apart from the multi-GPU overheads being higher, I use such a powerful GPU setup because I like perfectly fluid gameplay, which the i5 does help out in a lot.
With my side case fans turned off, my top X2 idles at 86ºC at a fan speed of about 2400rpm. Turn the side fans to max, it idles around 75ºC with the fan speed at 1100rpm. The effect on temps is absurd. Also of note, with the fans on a very low speed (500rpm) the PCH gets up to 60ºC due to the heat of the X2s during games. Turn the side fans up and it drops to 34ºC.
The warped side panels is an issue simply due to the case's size. SECC is a very malleable material that bends easily, it is not meant for high quality construction at all. It is used because, apart from being cheap, it has good thermal conductive properties. Aluminium cases never have this issue at all.
Rolled edges is something I'm used to with the NZXT cases I've had, and while the painted SECC finish isn't as nice to the touch as powder-coated Aluminium, it still makes handling the case a lot easier.
For what it's worth, the left (motherboard tray side) side panel on my HAF is a 'compression fit'. As soon as the screws are removed, the panel bursts off onto the floor, due to the pressure of the cables behind it.
Glad you like the HAF, when it first came out I was rather apprehensive on it being a monument to excess. Now my PC's a monument to excess (don't blame me, blame the software devs!) the HAF is a very fitting enclosure. Retrofitting it with high-grade 120mm fans makes it a formidable enclosure for cooling and space. There are bigger cases out there (amazingly enough) but none as adept at cooling a system.

 

removed. Damn laggy refreshes

 

i get the same fps as i do on cod4, as i do on bc2. Cod i was 1920x1200 4xAA 16xAF DX9, maxed out. Bc2 its 0x anything, dx9 1920 x1200 and lowest of the low settings. So do i spend £130 on a Q6600 + 4870 or save up for a car? Plus i doubt i will be able to oc the Q6600 beyond stock voltages in my case, so im looking at 3-3.2? And can my case hndle 2 4870s heat?

 

If £130 is all you're looking at spending on PC hardware, it's barely a dent in the vast amount you'll need to save for a car and insurance. Unless you're desperate, wait until you're 21 before buying a car, to reduce the insurance cost.

 

Haha I think that goes for anyone using the HAF. I just set up the cables so the pressure wouldn't damage anything

I might mention the sheer size. There's not enough room for me to get behind it so I have to pull it off the desk to take off the side panel.

Yes all of my temps have improved quite a bit. Especially my HDDs because of the sideways drive cage. My Armor is the oldest version so it still uses a traditional style.

I thought it might be a bit excessive as well but it really has helped me a lot. Loving the airflow for my passively cooled chipset

 

I bought my HAF 932 because it was supposedly very good at cooling, and because its a beast believe it or not. What can I say? Good things come in big packages LOL!

Definitely a godsend. It'll no doubt house ANY graphics card, probably any mobo, multiple HDD's, ODD's, etc etc. No one should be without. Though it can be quite heavy for the average person. IF it's full up with hardware. I'm sure somebody pushing 50's and 60's would find it a bit overkill LOL!

 

bought a Q6600 and another 4870 for £125. same price as a new 5770, i think i did okay . i just hope my case can take it, till i go home and replace it with a SG03 and the cooler with a Corsair H50-1 watercooler.

the 4870 has a zalman full copper zf1000 on it. sam how loud is this?

which should i keep the sapphire card top or that?



thats my current one thatll be CFing with the zalman


also jeff i have only 1 CF connector, will that be enough or do i need 2?

 

You only need one. 2 would be for tri-crossfire

 

anyone in europe gotten their hands on a copy of Assassin's creed II? Just wondering what kind of performance I will get on my ASUS G50 VT x5, 2.13ghz 4gigs ram and 9800m gs 512 mb. PC is starting to get a bit dated, just wondering if someone could give me a heads up. Been waiting for this game to come out for pc in the US next week.

 

Thanks sam, didn't see that one in my brief search.