The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition

You are wrong ALL companies compare I have reports from AMD, Intel, Seagate, WD, and so on you would again have to be ignorant to think that doesn't go on how do you think they compete. This is a pragmatic concept and will never go away and applies to all aspects of life.

No Shaff Sam is performance biased not bang for the buck and he displays this in his statements. That's fine if you always want the best and don't care the cost then such is life but it can't be argued as bang-for-the-buck.

It's funny that even though I would dispute the legitimacy of most of the links Sam has made I do see that there could be some validity to the fact that the new 970-990 Intel's may be worth the expense, I don't think they constitute the same value you'll get from AMD but with the performance improvement, what ever the true numbers are, it would seem that they could be worth the extra expense, however they wouldn't be a everyday machine though. So in summation to this statement I have given Sam the benefit of the doubt even though his factual links, haha, when no one was buying them I backed him, but he attacks my first hand experience as though it is BS. Another point I have 3 times the personal experience that Sam has however that doesn't mean I'm right and he is wrong all the time, we all make mistakes and go down the wrong path from time to time. It is good to admit when you are wrong as I did when I was knocking him on the 970!

The fanboy nonsense is just out of line what can one say. Differences are a given and like I've said before I don't follow anything blindly and won't buy AMD if something better comes along. I use to prefer Netflix but with the companies new attitude I doubt I'll go back with them, time will tell.

You're right on the nut here although a color laser printer is not cheap operating it makes up for the expense of operating an inkjet printer real fast.

I use inkjets for labels on disc's and pictures otherwise I typically use a monochrome laser printer, some day I'll get a color one.

 

I actually do prioritise bang for buck, believe it or not. There's no sense devoting 100% to that, otherwise you'd never buy a CPU in the first place - 0 dollars for not buying a new CPU is infinitely good value for money! If you can get 40% better performance for 50-60% higher price, a lot of people will go for it, because it'll be a tangible benefit that's worth paying extra for.

 

Sam,

$0 for not buying a new CPU is not good value for the money. The value is the same as the $0, because there is no value to be had by not buying anything.

BTW, I did take responsibility for the techreport screw up. I said that I didn't snap to the fact that the outfit was different. In all fairness, I've never heard of Bit-Tech or techreport. I've done a little reading at Bit-Tech and they seem to be front runners, meaning whatever they test they seem to go about their tests to favor that particular product. They seem to be the "Spin Doctors" of computer components!

Best Regards,
Russ

 

thats odd considering they have used the same test for years, not to mention they give you the test to try on your own system.

 

I wasn't going to pick on him about that Russ as he stated it better in the second half of his paragraph.

I still don't buy it though as his general statements speak otherwise but we will let him ride this time.

Sam is smart has has good worth with most of his feedback so you got to give him some slack...

Stevo

 

Just for the record my Q6600 has been holding 3.7GHz for 3-4 years without a hitch. CBA to find a purchase date but it has been holding the same clock at the same voltage since new. Also it has been Folding@Home more than half of that time. So not only has it held its clock beautifully, it has been under one of the most strenuous torture tests there is for the majority of it. AND IT'S ON AIR.

Also, for the record, the 8800GTS has been running F@H too, and still works just fine. So much for the G92 failure rate... though my own cooling mods might have had something to do with it as well. Come to think of it, the only cards I haven't felt the need to re-TIM have been my 6850s. Thank you XFX for the vapor chamber coolers

Now I can personally vouch for the Nvidia failure rate. They're terrible. But just had to mention they have put out good designs in the past. G92 is probably one of the best video card architectures ever designed.

I don't know what the future holds for Bulldozer, and I don't know if I'll be buying one. Rather disappointed in AMD to say the least. It's been years now and we're still waiting for a solid performance increase. Phenom II quads are still adequate for most gaming and whatnot, but I can't make a graphics upgrade without a new CPU. It's as black and white as that. Regretfully, I don't think my next CPU will be an AMD. Phenom II was barely worth getting for me and even then it was a side-grade to my already aging Intel at the time. Bulldozer is way too little, years too late. I simply can't continue to buy AMD if they can't put out a better CPU. Bulldozer was it for them, there is no ace up AMD's sleeve. AMD had a chance to sweep the market by storm and seem to have missed it. And it's not like they can blame the manufacturing process. Intel is currently using the same Global Foundries factories and process to produce chips.

I fall into the growing category of AMD users that simply can't buy on value alone anymore. It doesn't matter how good a deal it is if it isn't any good.

I'm willing to be patient, and see the full picture before making my final judgement, but it seems like AMD just pulled a Fermi.

 

Well, Sam himself said, that they're approaching a threshold for just how much further they can take a cpu. I forget his exact wording, but that is more or less what he said. Quite frankly, it's not hard to believe. 28nm is pretty friggin tiny. I think 22nm or 18nm is what we were speaking of when Sam said it. That's approaching the limits...
If that's true or not, It'll be VERY interesting to see what happens over the next decade. I have a feeling, one of the companies is gonna blow our minds with some impressive leap

 

Well we're reaching an atomic limit of how small we can make the circuitry, so our next changes will have to occur in HOW we compute, not how FAST we compute with a given set of circuitry. In that way alone, Bulldozer is a step in the right direction.

Ideally, the big leap will come with quantum computing ie computing with light instead of electricity. But I have a feeling that we'll see a bunch of interesting stop-gap ideas before quantum computing becomes practical.

 

That isn't true and why you can't upgrade your video card because of the CPU is just lame. You can add any video card to any CPU given the card slot permits.

We don't know what Bulldozer is going to do yet and if you are talking gaming the most important piece is your video card as most games don't task the CPU hard but do task the GPU. And then on top of that if you are online gaming another limit is your bandwidth of your highspeed connection.

AMD will still be much cheaper than Intel solutions and will still give you bang for the buck but if your going to calculate silt build up in a river or even want to transcode video the Intel is going to do a better job, it will just cost a fair amount more.

 

Yeah but my current CPU is already a bottleneck for these two video cards in several games. If I want to use cards any faster than this, I NEED a CPU upgrade or there will be no overall performance increase. This is a fact.

This is true but games also do task the CPU enough to make it a limiting performance factor. My video cards are quite adequate, but I often find my CPU being a limit in heavy-hitters.

Not true. Pings are much more important than bandwidth when gaming. When I was on Solarus internet I had 1.3Mb/s download bandwidth yet my pings(ie latency to the servers) were always quite low and manageable, even to European servers. Now I am using Charter internet with 20Mb/s of download bandwidth and my pings have gone largely unchanged. Your location and the location of the servers being used are ultimately a larger deciding factor than bandwidth. Also, when I am not gaming online, my internet bandwidth and ping do not come into play at all.

I agree that AMD will still offer more value for the price. It's their way of doing things. Damn right I am still an AMD fan. That was never in question. But Bulldozer hasn't impressed me so far. Best case, it's still much faster than Phenom II quads, which I am using. Prices will determine my next upgrade decision, but unless the later revision can fix some of the more glaring issues we seem to be seeing, I don't have much interest in it yet to be honest.

 

Actually Steve, coding is important when it comes to games. GTA IV is HIGLY CPU intensive. It utilizes the CPU more than the GPU from what I've read. I don't doubt there are other games like that too. And the CPU does have to manage the GPU/s

 

This is true Omega, it does take a bit of CPU overhead to manage the GPUs.

 

Pings are directly related to bandwidth, when you ping a network/internet address you are measuring response time between the host and you. The host is a factor as well as bandwidth.

You must really have a slow CPU (in Hz's) because I've played some intensive games on mediocre CPU's with very good video cards and was not limited.

Kevin, as I stated before some games are optimized for Intel and some for AMD so that is also a factor and could case your CPU to chug depending. Valid argument!

CPU is not tasked heavily by your GPU, your GPU should be taking the brunt of the load. You can increase your FSB or it can limit you but the bus to the video card is pretty healthy.

 

It handles GTA IV just fine The GPU obviously gets slightly taxed as well. I've seen her heat up LOL!

 

Nope, the bandwidth that a game actually uses to communicate with the server is quite small. I played 64 player Battlefield 2 matches for years with great pings on less than 1Mb/s. My bandwidth has never limited my ability to play online.

Also, nope I just play the most intensive games out there. The Witcher 2, Battlefield 3, etc. It DOES become an issue, even at 3.8GHz on a Phenom II quad. Read my signature, as that is the system needing an upgrade. I am an extreme performance user, and the Phenom II has become decidedly less extreme in the light of CPUs like Sandy Bridge.

 

Extreme performance, I would be afraid to look at the Intel extreme CPU's, let alone touch them for that much money LOL!

 

My definition of ping rates is nuts on accurate, like I said pings relate to response time and are measured in MS. FPS will also be depended on bandwidth but also GPU performance and CPU but again more on GPU. The Intel handles video (FPS) better so there would be an increase with them plus you can push their cores faster so you are right that Intel's will perform better but how much is the question. I suppose with Battlefield 3 it might be much better I haven't play that game yet but plan too.

I would love to have the 990x as I've stated over and over but that doesn't mean I need it for every day use, unless I was transcoding all the time or doing other heavy work. I don't have time to play games all the time but have two rigs that I use from time to time.

 

When I am not working, I'm probably gaming. I enjoy building PCs that aren't just adequate but FAST. My father builds hot rods, and so do I lol. Even something quite reasonable, like an i5 2500k, is miles faster in everything than this Phenom II. You don't even have to spend a whole lot to get a better CPU.

 

I know where your coming from I don't work on hot rods anymore but sure do love them. I gave up my old muscle car for a fast super-bike(s) that I built up so much that you barely crack the throttle and the front end jumps off the ground. It in fact is so hot it is hard not to jump the front end up. A friend didn't believe me until he tried it, now he is afraid to drive it, I just laugh...

Right now I'm building some new tower speakers and plan to sell my Klipsch Horns so when that happens I will buy a 990x with a hot mainboard and SSD for the OS drive which should bake some eggs.

 

Ha I have also been looking into new speakers for everything. I need to re-cone the ones I do have. But it's a very worthwhile project considering the cost of equivalent new ones! These ones require 18" woofers!