The Stone Ages - Yet another problem with encoding

Nero often gives an unplayable message when there's nothing wrong with the DVD. Ignore the warning and burn anyway.

 

@ Lumbatio sorry if I'm way off here I'm just checking back in and gald to see everybody still pitching in to get this working but I found this

and wondered does rebuilder not give you enough options to do this also don't know if it has been refferenced the passes really shouldn't need to exceed two I sometimes use just one. and have yet to get anything but grand results!

cheers!!

 

It's just that I am not sure how to use RB to edit the DVD's. I assume that I should go to the "Input Settings" tab and double click anything I don't want until I see an 'x' besides it. The problem is that there are many unreferenced items with 0kb size and I don't know whether I should "x" them or not.
Everything is OK now. First of all, I discovered that Shrink does not really alter the quality in uncompressed format. This means I can use Shrink to edit the movies before using RB. But what is even more important, I discovered that even with 2 passes, CCE SP creates such a perfect quality that I can't tell the difference from the original even when the DVD is 7.95 Gigs (the largest so far.) As such, I don't really even have to remove anything from the DVD since the quality is not going to change. The only downside is that I have to go through the FBI warning when first inputing the DVD, but that's not such a big problem since it lasts only about 10 seconds. I should soon create a new thread specifically for newbies so that they can avoid the crap that I had to go through. It turns out that most of it was unnecessary, completely.
I decided to upgrade my Nero to 6.6.0.16, but am not sure whether that will solve the issue with burning some DVD's, as mentioned before.
Thanks everyone for the help. I'll return the favor by combining everything I have learned into the new thread to aid bewildered DVD burning virgins.

 

Lumbastio

Run your ripped file through DVD Shrink and then make a note of what each on does. Open RB and the Audio files should be in the same order as they were in Shrink. If you have the pro version of RB then it gets much easier. For instance the only extras that I like to keep are multiple audio tracks IE AC3 6ch and DTS 5:1 but to access them you still need the menu but you don't need the sound tracks to the "making of parts." To resolve this I select in RB pro "Keep menu's and blank extras" and then I remove all 2 channel sound tracks.

 

Lumbatio if you disable one-click you will be able to preview and edit like in dvdshrink just switch to your teck original skin I think a couple others might do this as well but this is the one I use and after prepare you will be able to click on the preview edit tab!
also in rockas original skin(as well as uncasm's) the option is a check mark just like shrink!

see if you can make sense of my ramblings as it is getting late! I'm off to bed!

 

l8nights

The difference with Shrink is that it allows you to separate the extras and view the audio tracks as well as locating trailers. Sometimes only the trailers need to be removed to make a DVD9 and type 5 and for that I use DVDremake. I only use shrink as an analysis tool. I used to use it to shrink only the extras before encoding but since jdobbs added the ability to retain the menu without extras I don't do that anymore

 

I'm pretty tied up now, but perhaps within a week or two will try your suggestions and get back. I do have the latest RB pro version and the fact that you can edit the movie with RB without having to use Shrink is very appealing. I know about the drop down menu selection, but am not always sure what do they omit.
BTW, what does it mean when a user is inactive (e.g. l8night has acquired that title.)

 

It means that for one reason or another they were banned from the forum for either breaking the rules or flamming members. I didn't know he was banned until just now.

 

@ lumbastio hope every thing has worked out 4 you have any questions well I'm sure the friendly members here will be happy to iron out any wrinkles her is a link to why I am now "inactive" > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/5/233562#1321602
and this one makes for a good read> http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/237534
also if you get the chance check out uncasm's guide it is no longer as flip has deemed it necessary to ban the author!

let's hope the wind changes as it has began to stink in these once fun filled forum's
have fun and enjoy it because it seems nothing last forever

see you around
later, l8ter aka l8nights!

 

Lumbastio
Noticed a couple of things might have been made a bit more concise. With using Shrink to make files DVD compliant; DVD Shrink will often correct the structure so one can go ahead and burn. One of the nice functions built into the Shrink program. What happens though when using Shrink at "no compression", it still processes the files as Sophocles stated. The result resembles someone changing the contrast on a video monitor. Noticable when you look for it between the original and the Shrink output. You still end up with a good viewable output though. You'll notice if you look around that this condition is often referred to as "softening". I prefer my copies to be as crisp as possible. With hundreds of backups, I've only had to resort to using Shrink on one occasion. With updates to decryption software, I doubt that would be necessary again with the same DVD. However, it isn't worth the effort to go back and retry it. It was a bad movie and only something I picked up because it was a topic of interest at the time with new encryption.

Using RB to edit is just a matter of setup. Go to Options and select Setup. In the setup window at the bottom you'll see "Audio to Remove" and "Subtitles to Remove". Select the languages you don't want to keep in both and save. That edits out all the languages you selected each time you use RB in the future. Just remember if you ever record some of the Japanese classics with subtitles, you may have to reset unless you allowed Japanese in your original selection. That's just an example, but sometimes in rare cases you may want to remember you have to change the settings if you want to allow other languages to be recorded. That fairly well covers editing out extra language tracks. Under Special Settings select Remove All DTS Audio and Remove Director's Comments if you don't want to take up the space if these options are present. That will leave you with the Dolby track or whatever is present. DTS takes special equipment to play, so is an option needed only if you have the equipment. Only the true aficianado seems to appreciate the difference. Sadly I'm not one of them. Now you have your languages and audio fairly well covered in internal RB editing.

Under Mode you can select the content of your DVD backup. You have Movie Only, Movie and Menus Only on up to Full Backup. So, you can now have a Movie Only with only the surround sound Audio and no languages saved other than the ones you want. Sounds like that would fairly well edit for most users' requirements. More than that and a person is getting a bit anal. Going as far as clipping titles isn't going to save enough space to make an appreciable difference. The result should be fully compliant. In the past all of mine have been.

Usually most problems that occur happen in editing or in the decrypting process. RB simply uses one of the supported encoders or transcoders to compress. If you put a problem in, you get a problem out.

As for 12 hr encodes, I regret seeing your dilemma but that appears to be equipment based as much as software. Using Shrink with all the "Quality Settings" and RB/CCE at 2 passes (all CCE Basic will do anyway) takes about the same amount of time. I have a relatively slow PC at 2.8GHz and my encode times are only about a third (or better) of yours and that is using an SP trial set to 4 passes. That's 2.8GHz, 1GB RAM, and 2 X 7200 RPM HDDs one at 80GB and one 250GB. A faster processor and more RAM makes a difference. Mostly the faster processor though if you have ample memory. As pointed out, encoding is highly processor intensive. Also to save yourself a bit of time, you might want to cut back to 3 passes with the encoder to save a few hours. jdobbs, the author of RB, tends to think the extra passes don't do that much to help.

One last thing of note; get an RW or 2 for testing those questionable burns with Nero. If it doesn't burn properly on the RW, then nothing is lost. Once you know you can get a good burn, then record to the recordable disc of choice. Takes out a lot of guess work and saves on the coasters.

That should have you only needing AnyDVD and Decrypter to decrypt and rip, RB with an encoder to compress and your choice of burners to complete the project. Saves all that time editing and moving files around. I'd suggest ripping in the file mode, personal preference, but I know from experience it does an excellent job in RB. If you want ISO output, RB can still give you ISO even though you rip in File mode. Those options are under Mode as well at the top left of the RB window. I hope you realize your options better now.

As for some of those "free" programs floating around the net; just because they open and seem to function doesn't mean they're working properly. I think you may realize that from vurbal's and others' input and your own personal experience here. Those of us who have been helping with support of RB on the forum have also seen cases where "free" versions of retail encoders and "unlimited trials" have also posed problems. Seems some of those people who supply "free" programs do a better job than others. As a self professed person with expertise, you should see the validity in what I'm saying.

Happy burning...

 

Stone Age, now that was when I started, back when you threw the old rock slab in the dino rockpecker box and it chiseled a fine output. LOL Actually we had things like 321 and little other choice than early stages of Shrink. Maybe the rock slab was better. Not that bad even then once you caught on. Nothing like the high quality we're getting now. However, then you didn't have all the extras and the movies seemed to be smaller. Of course there was "The Longest Day", "Green Berets", "Gone with the Wind" and "Lawrence of Arabia" for those who really wanted to push the compression envelope. LOL And just because everyone else told you, I have to agree, there is usually nothing in the Audio folder. LOL Have a good one...

 

hey l8ter. I read some bits and pieces from the threads you provided. I never that such things were going on in here. I am new around here, but my opinion is it is very important to think thrice before banning a knowledgeable and well respected member. It's likely that the problem with managing this forum is due to the fact that there is no age qualification for moderation, as far as I can see. Some responses from the moderators I read made me think that they were very young. The rule must be that no one under 18 should be a mod. Preferably over 20. Older=wiser=tolerable=alternate solutions before losing temper.

Thanks a lot for clarifying brobear. Here are some specific comments/questions:

1) Do ALL DVD's need to be made compliant or only very rare and weird ones?
2) So then are you saying that Shrink only changes the contrast? Just like you, I want the absolute best quality and contrast is not a problem.
3) The setup info was very helpful. I'll get rid of extra subpictures, but the audios can't be touched since all the operas are in foreign languages.
4) Movie only option is very indiscriminate. Some of the opera's are split into two major files and movies only will remove half of the movie. Perhaps I should use Shrink to see the contents and decide whether I can use that feature.
5) If your 2.8 GHz is “slow,” then my PC is perhaps from the stone ages! 2.8 is very impressive, how can you call that slow? I don’t want to buy a new PC, but if there was a forum in here about hardware, I would like to know whether it is worth changing the CPU of my 3 year old Dell Dimension 2300, maybe to something like 3.2 GHz (what’s the highest and prices?)
6) I agree about RW. That’s something I should have done before wasting 7 DVDs, but that’s ok, they were only TY! I hope that I won’t need them anymore.
7) I am using only file mode

Perhaps the most important question is this: when I compared an opera processed and edited by Shrink and then encoded by CCE SP 2 passes to the original DVD, I could see no difference whatsoever. This is when I became convinced that Shrink does not change the quality in the uncompressed format. What do is your experience in here?
Also, for a test, I decided to burn a DVD using only RB – I kept everything that was there. After CCE SP 2 passes, there again was no difference between the original and the copy even though the damn thing was 7.96 Gbs! I began to wonder, if such a large file can be copied with SP so impeccably (this is not even 3 passes yet), why the hell edit it in the first place? Do you think that there is any point in trying to decreasing the DVD size when CCE SP does such a perfect job?

Most of the programs that I get are directly from the manufacturer. All I do is decipher the code for the activation. But you are right, some programs, e.g. Remake, operate on a different basis and while any program and any security system can be breached, it’s just not worth the time. I spend that time more productively by trying to get scientific software which helps to propagate the knowledge in science, the best thing out there. Remake is just peanuts.

Eventually I hope that the prices for those DL’s go down. All this discussion is because of the expensive prices of dual layer media. Once it goes down, DVD burning will be as simple as CD burning. Let’s hope it happens soon before the transcoding and encoding industry gets so rich that it tries to prevent it from happening.

 

Lumbastio

No matter how good a transcoder or encoder is, something had to go to reduce the size of a DVD. One of the things that shrink does is it reduces the sharpness, gives a kind of softened airbrushed look. Reducing the sharpness can hide video noise or least make it less noticeable but it also washes away fine background detail. Even when I decide to keep all the extras I try to find something to trim especially large audio tracks. But most of the time I don't give a "rats behind" abut all the boring extras but I do care about sound tracks. If there's an AC3 6 CH and a DTS 5 CH then I try to keep them both but to use them you need to be able to access them through a menu. Fortunately DVD-RB Pro has that option you can keep the menu and blank the extras.

With some concert footage the extras are often desirable because they provide extra musical passages and music is the whole point to a concert. Often however concerts are filmed in dark theaters and the video is already going to have noise due to low light conditions. In such cases it might be worth while to consider grabbing it all and use filters such as undot to minimize the noise.

 

I agree on the conditions of the concert playing a large part in the quality. After doing that Michael Flatley Collection for my wife, I noticed that the concert that was videoed first had a lot of noise in it, the second concert on the disk that took place 2 years later was in excellent condition. Which I think has to do with later video technology. It is like some movies, those that have been remastered look a lot better than those that have not. In their rush to put everything out on DVD it looks like some studios just took old video tapes and recorded them, the quality is bad.

 

Lumbastio
Sounds like you're asking some preemptive questions. Factory DVDs are already compliant. Sometimes the structure gets damaged in editing and ripping; rarely in the ripping, but it can happen. That's why I emphasized Shrink's ability to correct structure. There were some other apps mentioned that will accomplish the same, possibly not as easily. So, DVD compliance is not a real worry.

Sophocles gave you a good description of what Shrink does, no need to go farther. I rarely visit Shrink anymore, though I still keep a copy on my PC.

I've not had a problem with RB leaving parts of the movie out. If I were you, I'd give the program a try at Movie only with Menus to see how one of your DVDs come out.

When you consider my 2.8GHz P4 wasn't even the top performer when I purchased it a few years ago, and now compare it to the newer 3.6 GHZ, the AMD 64s, and the dual cores you're looking at slow. In reality I guess it is actually somewhere around the bottom of what one could still call mid range or around the top of the lower level processors. It's decent but I'd like better. Same old story, always want something bigger.

You can check out processors at NewEgg.com. Check with the manufacturer support for your PC to see what the mobo will support in the line of processors. Some retail sites can help on occasion. If you can go up to a 3.2GHz processor, then you're looking at a few hundred dollars. As I said, the NewEgg prices are decent and will give you an idea.

One of the nice things about RB/CCE is that it works well at high compression. Often most DVDs can be done without editing with little loss of quality. Something is lost anytime you encode, nature of the process. RB/CCE does it well enough that it is usually barely noticable; in a lot of cases not even visible to the eye. When you're moving out to 8GB or better, it's probably best to edit when possible. Anything just over 7 GB and I don't worry about it. Part of getting good with RB is using it and getting a feel for it. You do a lot better working with it than talking about it. Go ahead and push it around and if you have problems, then ask questions. One can go on with discussing various situations for quite a while.

As for discussions on cracking software, I don't go there. I do know that some apps like DVDRemake have a security system that is quite difficult to breach, making downloads from their site almost impossible. That leaves cracked versions which aren't the same as the retail downloads. We've seen enough problems with the "unlimited trials" to know they can be trouble. Same with some of the CCE "trials". Use what you will, but don't complain if problems crop up. Some people won't even try to help if they see "trials" are in use.

Seems by the time DL media will get low enough we'll be into high definition. Then we'll be compressing to DL if that is what is still in use. Some people are already looking at DivX as a means of compressing enough to work with hi-def DVDs, which might allow the DVD5s to hang on longer. Who knows at this point? For now, all we have to worry about is simple encryption and DVD9 to 5 encoding with RB. I just work with what's there and hope what comes next will be just as easy. Worrying about what's coming down the road won't help.

 

Lumbastio and brobear (god help us if Pete and Vurbal's reading this)I think that it's time for both of you to start posting your word counts. That's right, in the interest in saving energy due to the current rate of oil by the barrel, you'll both have to reduce your word counts to just below that of "War And Peace."

 

First time I'm seen racing fingers blamed for the energy crisis. LOL Lest we forget, I've seen some Sophocles' dissertations. I'll have to remind you in the future. Words sometimes come back to haunt you. LOL

 

Sophocles' dissertations? Prove it! LOL

 

Are you sure? LOL If not having all your words in one, we can at least agree you're prolific. Over 300 posts in the limited search query. LOL Enough proof? LOL