Video Card Thread (Mostly Gecube x1950xt)

Oh, I see what you mean by fraps taking cycles - in-game video cam - sure that's going to put waymon at a major fps disadvantage - better to turn it off with msconfig - start tab - unclick it, reboot, have the matchup, turn it back on later - that should work (maybe there will be several processes associated with it that will come up in msconfig - they'll all need to be turned off)

Kardson, Sam is right about the purple fans!! (I think.) Did you light up the cigar yet? I think the things suck, not blow. I never would have thought. I just happened to look at a picture of them just now. If you look at them top down, each fan blade is curved like a grass-cutter - what is that thing called - scythe I think. But unlike the way you use a scythe, swinging it into the grass against the curve, you wouldn't rotate the fan against the curve, would you? I don't believe you would - it would stress each blade needlessly and you could break one off.

So it looks to me like the fans rotate clockwise. If so, they suck. I don't think you need the cigar - just hit the power switch for a second - put a mirror under the card - see which way the blades turn - the mirror would reverse the direction and show you counter-clockwise. If so, Sam is right about turning the blitztorm radial fan to point down. Damn Sam, how did you get to be so smart! :=)

 

Yeah Dinc,

PWM all the way for me. My motherboard gives me nothing for controlling a pwm fan, except for the cpu fan HSU and I am going to leave that one alone, after I turn it around.

So you like Arctic Cooling - ok I'll check them out.

See my post a couple of posts back about the Mcubed T-balancer - the little computer that sits in the case and controls all the fans, and reads all the temperatures, then tells you everything that is going on through its usb connnector.

I don't care what my mobo gives me regarding fan control, the Mcubed is going to take over that job.

I'll check out the Arctic Cooling and whatever other tips everybody has on fans before I order. I'll go over to my PC buddy's place (Mo builds PCs - for corporations too) to see what sizes are going to fit the various locations, then I'll order everything - after I sell a house. LOL.

Thanks dude,
Rich

 

THE MATCHUP

Hey Travis Walker! (kardson)

I have an idea. If it isn't convenient for Waymon to turn off fraps, then it might be okay, anyway, to go forward and meet him on the BF2 battlefield with the fraps enabled. If he still has significantly better fps than you, we will know that omega drivers rule, since you guys are neck and neck at 3d mark 6.

But if you are even, or if you are ahead of him, at that time Raymond may end up saying to you, "Travis, this isn't a fair test of omega. I should be beating you. I'm going to turn off fraps and I'll meet you back here at the railroad cars in 5 minutes." :=)

 

Its not like you have to turn fraps off before you start the computer. In fact thats an extra program he has to start before he goes into BF2. So its just as easy for him to leave it off than it is to turn it on

http://www.fraps.com/

 

Hehe, the side is brushed aluminium, but the front is in fact plastic. It's still as shiny though! The NZXT Lexa is about $100.
Papst fans are some of the best for quietness, but it depends whether that bothers you or not.
I find Nexus and Scythe fans to make the smoothest and least irritating noise, and they can achieve up to 70CFM at 31dB max. The average 120mm case fan produces 50CFM at anything above 30dB.

The wires are indeed very short on arctic fans which bugs me, and they're not the greatest for airflow either.
As for the purple fans, most fans rotate anti-clockwise as you look at the live part of the motor (the circle that spins round), and clockwise as you look at the static part (the label)
Which way up are they? if the label on them spins, or theres no label, theyre spinning anti-clockwise as you look at them, if it's a solid sticker, then clockwise.

Don't forget guys, Fraps has no performance hit unless you record video (red frame counter), if you just use it for monitoring (yellow numbers) it has no noticeable effect on performance. Not for me anyway.

that's flattering, especially for a 19 year old who hasn't done too well in his exams...

 

Yeah, I was looking for high airflow fans, of course for a high airflow throughout my case, in balance with low noise.
So I just compared a bunch of brands at an online-store and Arctic Cooling was one of the best.
They especially stick out with their patented construction and low noise.
They're even higher airflow than the 120mm Turbine-fans.

But that Mcubed T-balancer, does it also support PWM since you like PWM?
Because, I forgot to tell, it's also hard to find PWM-controllers.
There are some controllers that have 1 or 2 PWM-connectors, but that's of course not enough...

 

Unfortunately, most fan manufacturer's fan specs are complete rubbish, which makes the process far more difficult.
Example:
High speed case fan rated at 2000rpm, 85CFM and 25dB, could actually be 72CFM and 36dB
Silent case fan rated at 1200rpm, 50CFM and 12dB, is likely to be 40CFM and 25dB.

PWM is an interesting way of adjusting fan rpm and it does mean you can get the fan speed very accurate, but it can sometimes provoke noise in fans due to the motors used, especially if you use a PWM controller with a non-PWM fan. Standard fan controllers are simpler, but if you want software controlled, you may as well go with PWM.

My highest rated fans at the moment are the Nexus Realsilent and Scythe S-Flex series.

 

Yeah, I sometimes already thought why some numbers were awkward.
They're probably just trying to make them look good.
But I saw good reviews and they seem to work good here.
Usually you just have to try them to see if they're any good.

 

Which is what I did with Noctua fans. The 80mm was alright, but the 120s were a bit naff. I don't like these silverstones much either, the noise character is horrible.

 

wow I havnt been here in a while... School is eating up all my time.

Anyways, yeah, I use fraps but it doesnt start automatically, so I can play BF2 with or without them. There is a command, something like "show rednerer fps" or something, that you can type into the cmd panel in BF2. I dont think that takes away your fps... does it?

Btw, i can really only play on staurday/sunday after 3pm on saturday (est time) and anytime sunday due to school. just so you know...

 

no, and neither should fraps if you don't capture anything.

 

So what am I supposted to use to get my fps without getting worse results?

 

Either of them. Neither of them cause any performance deficit whatsoever.

 

oh ok then, thanks...

 

wow, is this thread finally going to go quiet?

 

who knows, this thread might quiet down a bit

FAN ROTATION - NOT WHAT I THOUGHT
Well I was 100% wrong about how fans rotate. The ones that are shaped like scythes (you know, those metal grass cutters) revolve in the direction of the curve, not away from the curve like I thought. They revolve just the same way you would take a scythe and cut the grass - so the curved point is your leading edge. That being said, I have to go back to the Gecube pictures here: look at the second picture

and notice how the blade curves. After watching several different types of fans this evening, the purple blades would turn counter-clockwise, or as Sam says, anti-clockwise. Looking at the picture you can see that the upper part of each blade is the leading edge, so the purple blades in the picture, spinning counter-clockwise, actually blow down toward the cooler. Hanging upside down, therefore, the fans blow up toward the top of the case, and the blitztorm, positioned under them, would not be fighting them if it blew upward, which it does, but having just received it today, yes you can rotate it 180 so it blows downward.

I just discovered another "amazing" thing about my cpu fan - same type of thing exactly. Using speedfan, I modified the settings in the sensor chip to use pwm control to reduce the fan to zero rpm.

This didn't actually stop it, so I touched it in the middle (not on the blades) so I could see the fan profile. Exactly like the picture above of the purple blades, but looking from the underside. I cranked up the speed, since my cpu temp was going up rapidly, and yes it does blow down toward the cpu chip, like everybody has been telling me to set it at. All the air that I felt coming out toward the side, when I took off the side cover, was air that had been pushed out the heat sink by the fan and was splashing back - quite vigorously actually.

FAN DUCT REMOVES NEED FOR FAN AT POSITION 2
That means I don't really need an intake fan at position 2 on kardson's (Travis') drawing - I already have the intake fan, now I just need to duct it. I sent for the sunbeam overclocker's duct kit, because of that damn Mo, whom I visited today. :=) Yes, he threw out the telescoping part that would have mated to the cpu fan, but that's all right. For $20 the sunbeam will allow me to use a flexible tube to connect the cpu fan and side case, giving me just a little bit of room to take off the side cover a bit, and unfasten the duct, so I can remove the side cover completely.

I remounted the 5.25 devices to the top of the case. That was a little bit of a hassle, since the ide cables wouldn't reach from the hard drives - Mo had wanted the reader on a separate ide channel than the burner, because sometimes I burn right from the reader like when I copy a cd. So slave master was messed up, but finally got that working, hard drives on one ide cable, readers on another. From a different computer I have, I pulled some fans off a cooler Mo and I had put on a 9800 card a few years ago. The cooler gets really hot - but I wanted to play with the fans regarding cooling my case. That computer hasn't crashed yet, so maybe I'll leave the fans off. Mo has a boatload of used fans at his shop - he'll probably give me whatever I want for my "project" especially if I give him a little more grief about tossing the telescope. It's funny, while I was there he buttoned up a case for a client, and popped up the telecoping part before putting the side cover on - wish I could do that Mo!

Otherwise the fans you guys recommended, Artic Cooling, Nexus and Scythe - I will check them all out.

AGP VS PCI-EXPRESS
Mo gave me quite a lecture about not investing too much more money on agp technology, For $500 he sells a starter PC with PCI-express, 160gig hard drive, core2 duo cpu 1.8mhz, combo dvd reader/burner, 400 watt psu, on board sound, lan card, I forget what else. I told him, well what if I wanted to upgrade the chip (which is about 80 of the price - 1.8 isn't so fast, times 2 that's 3.6 and I have 3.2 right now - he said, well for about 200, 120 more, you could probably get about 2.4Ghz on a core2 duo. And then maybe $150 on the motherboard instead of a $75 motherboard, for better quality, etc. etc. Add a $200 512mb x1950xt pci-e version, basically like the board you have, Sam, and it was going to be about $1,000 or so. He told me, sell your computer on ebay for a couple hundred. Anyway, he's a funny guy. He doesn't game, and his attitude is, why overclock, just get the faster one.

But anyway, some of what he said made sense, so my nifty idea about the Mcubed is probably going to go to the sidelines for now.

I'm going to put the Gecube in on the cheap. I already have the thermattach tape, for the mod, (thanks Travis) the arctic silver 5, and several molex splitters. The blitztorm arrived and it's in the case now instead of the vantec. Noisy and powerful!

...........................
I'll have 4 exhaust fans going - psu, weak case fan at 4 that I might beef up, blitztorm - (that thing blows strong - and just as noisy as you thought it would, Sam) - and soon to be installed exhaust fan at the bottom rectangular inlet (position 3) on the side panel. Four fans trying to get rid of the Gecube heat! The cpu hsf is an inlet fan, completely protected from the Gecube because it will bring in its own fresh air through the fan duct. So, that makes 4 out, and 1 in. Doesn't sound very balanced, does it! A very negative pressure case.

I might just pop off one of the front plastic tabs - I already tested it - and see if there is a boatload of air pouring in the front just because of all that exhaust activity toward the back of the case. Like I say I tested it a bit today, just with the blitztorm blower, ramping up the x850xtpe with the ATT tool to max rpm - it vents out the case like the blitztorm - and the psu fan blowing out. I covered the rectangular hole with a paper, and there was definitely negative pressure in the front. Upgrading the weak case fan, and adding a strong fan to the rectangular hole, will up the exhaust pressure a lot. (although ducting the cpu cooler will offset it slightly because it will make the cpu fan a true inlet fan.)

If you think about it, (other than the cpu fan) the exhaust fans turn the entire case into a fan duct toward the rectangular hole in front created by popping off one of the 5.25 device covers. My thought was, I might try the case just like that for a while - maybe adding a little screening to keep the birds out (hehe.)

Will I even need an extra boost by placing intake fans there? It will make an interesting test.

And in a few days I'm going to start drilling out the case at position 2 before the sunbeam duct kit arrives. Between drilling and the hacksaw, those restrictive little holes will be gone - and then I'll add a grill for bling - thank you travis. I looked at the new version of the case that Mo sells - same case basically - and the round holes are much less restrictive now, and guess what, they provide mounting holes for a fan at the rectangular screen section! They've stolen your idea, Travis!

Dinc, the Mcubed allows you to control 4 discrete pwm devices - but you can put 4 fans on each molex line - for a total of 16 (actually they say 20) so maybe the bigng has 5. In talking with Mo about motherboards, I was thinking also that if a good pci-express motherboard has a several pwm fan headers, controllable through the motherboard sensor, so that you can see them all in the bios, then speedfan could work through the mobo. The Mcubed BigNG would come in handy later for flow control with water cooling.

...
I went to a web site with hundreds of cases - I think when I spend the serious bucks later for a pci-express machine, I want a nice case like you guys have - with a glass panel. Then I'll have to enhance my bling! Both of you guys have really nice cases - so Sam, it's brushed aluminum on part of it, and plastic on the rest? It looks great - for $100, or is it 100 L? (Did the cat survive?) haha!

What about you, waymon (Raymond.) Did you get the 900, and do you have any pictures of it (or links.) Hey you were asking about getting your fps while you are battling Travis some Sat or Sunday. Sam and Travis say you won't be penalized by fraps if you leave the video cam capture feature off. But you have Ati Tray Tool, right? That works with omega drivers, doesn't it? Or does it not?

Alright, see you guys,
Rich

 

wow, thanks for the link (kardson) Travis fraps looks really cool! I downloaded the Far Cry sample. Wow! (jeezuus dude, you might want to reload once in a while - or put the smg on the quick change key when you run out!) That was one part that I played quite a few times - you have to watch out for the guy up front with the mounted machine gun - same one you use later to take out the helicopter - not to mention the guy way up on top - I ate it lots of times. But I loved it up on the top deck, (when you go back up there after taking out the helicopter) because you can really rambo it up with the smg (and a little bit of caution) and engage in some pretty intense action - smg for up close, Qkey flip to assault rifle, for distance. Toss a few grenades. I digress....

What are any of you guys doing with fraps? I guess it would be cool for game forums - you could post the cut down version on youtube and then say - "hey this one part is really giving me a problem - I can't get past here - here's the link"

Come to think of it, Travis how about linking me to a little bit of fraps Medal of Honor Airborne demo. I would love to see what I'm missing since the demo still says "card not supported" =(

 

Is that not saying the same as what I wrote?

Forgive me, I'm english, that's how we say it here.

the minimum speed for a fan in speedfan is around 30% I think, even if you set it lower.

He/She's right, AGP is becoming a bit antiquated now, and too many upgrades on old platforms are overly expensive.

Move away from the mhz idea. One 1.8Ghz core of a Core 2 Duo would obliterate any P4 all the way up to 3.8hz, and that's just one half of the processor, and the slowest model. the architecture for the core 2s is so much better that the clock speed doesn't need to be anywhere near as high to get similar performance.

At the time when I bought my CPU, you couldn't buy a CPU as fast as how I'd made it, and I bought the cheapest model. £100 for a CPU faster than the £500 one!

The case is all Aluminium apart from the front cover Rich, which is plastic but closed by magnets, instead of the usual plastic catch found on most cases.

Suffice to say, the nexus fans won't be powerful enough for you if the current fan you have is insufficient, but with a case that allows for more fans such as mine, it wouldn't be an issue. bear in mind if you upgrade to PCIe, you'll lose the peltier so your case will be a lot cooler.

 

Hey Sam,

Yeah I know I figured the anti-clockwise was an Englishism - like petrol - but I had never heard it before. Interesting.

The way you described the fan rotation is probably identical, it's just that I am not that familiar with fans - so I was not easily able to figure out what you were saying - sorry :=)

(Hey when you guys do a quote, how do you get it to say: "As originally posted by sammorris")

Mo is a guy, a good guy. True, no tec cooler to worry about if I upgraded to pci-e, but like I say, I'm going on the cheap now. I'll stay with my agp, put the thing in, and add a bunch of fans.

3 BAY INTAKE FAN
I just found an intake fan, 120mm, scythe, Kama Bay that comes with a case that slides into 3 5.25" bays. I don't have 3 available, just two. But I think Mo told me yesterday, that a dvd burner/reader runs about $30 now. I can't believe it. So maybe I'll pull out the two 5.25 devices I have, (I don't have a dvd burner and I would like to have one) replace them with the one, and get the Scythe product for $20.

Thanks for clarifying the cpu speed issue.

Mo was implying the same thing but I don't believe he is as knowledgeable as you are. I have to do a lot of Amandtech reading to get up to speed on cpus.

So if I get the Kama Bay on newegg three-bay intake fan, (also on newegg) the reviews are saying, toss the fan, and put something strong in there. What 120mm fan should I put, Sam.

Thanks,
Rich

 

to quote a particular person...

[ quote = USERNAME ] Quote [ / quote ]
but without any of the spaces.

As for the fans, it depends if you give a rat's bum about noise or not. If you don't, you may as well run the fans at max. A good bet for that is a Scythe S-Flex. I assume the 5 1/4" bay is using 80mm fans, so I don't know what your options are there, I usually work with 120mms, but make sure you get the highest speed one in the series. A lot of scythe fans are very quiet, but very slow.