Which Transcoding Tools Produce The Best Picture Quality.

Hey fellows, Been off the forum for a little while due to reformatting my HD and reloading software.

I have a question that probably does not apply to this thread but I know one of you can probably answer my question.

Backing up Taken with Recode 2 onto Imation DVD's.
In the Preview screen while analyzing where it shows the compression action. About 3 to 4 seconds into the compression I get a single red spike among the green.
What does this indicate. The finished product seems to play fine.

TMcCallie

 

Tom,corrupted video, if you get enuff of those "red spikes", good luck to getting your back up to work properly.

 

TMcCallie

Like bigorange said red spikes are not good sign and in time it could but not necessarily result in an unplayable moive. It could be a media problem, below is a list of media that's been compiled by the forum administrator.

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/12824

 

Don't believe it is the media as I use Ritek GO4.
I have only gotten the red spike which is very very small while backing up the last three volumns of Taken. I have tried the burned DVD and can't find any problem.

If I get this any more, I will be concerned. Have never gotten it before and I have burned lots of DVD's

Thanks, I knew this forum would know what was wrong.

Tom

 

Tom

Then slow your burns.
_X_X_X_X_X_[small]

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]

 

Its best to burn at 1x (most drives can't, usually you can get hacked firmware so you can) but, if you can't then burn @ the SLOWEST possible speed, this helps reduce errors greatly no matter what the media

 

What speed was TMcCallie burning at?

Pop_Smith
At some point the burn slower deal becomes a bit too slow. Most media on the shelf now is the 4X. (Some of the 8X burners can go even faster.) So burning at 4X shouldn't pose a problem as long as a person has good media and a good burner. Make sure the firmware for a particular burner is up to date.

TMcCallie
Did you run the media through DVDInfoPro to check it out. It's a free tool with a little adware attached. Nothing that will mess with your PC and it gives a lot of data on the media.

 

For anyone that's interested, these are some of the suggestions to Mr. Shrink. about improvements to his app, ones he will implement, ones he will consider, and ones that will be tossed aside. I found it to be very interesting, hope you guys find some merit or maybe even spark an idea for him and his wonderful freeware. Here goes: Thanks for all your feedback.

One thing I noticed is that many of you are happy with the quality and speed of the current version of DVD Shrink. To this end, I will make sure that all changes to the next version are user selectable (additional options in the Backup window), but the default setting will be exactly as now.

Another thing I noticed is the number of additional feature requests, bug fixes, requests for things other than video quality improvements. I have to be blunt about this: sorry, but probably I will not have time.

With regard some questions:

How about having an option to compress audio so that you have more room for video?

I can't do this. I know nothing about compressing audio ;-)

Is there any way we can lower the resolution (like to VCD when there are still motion scenes) and keep high resolution on fast action scenes?

Basically, no. Resolution changes, like PAL->NTSC conversion, would require a full re-encode.

Am I correct in saying that if you dull the colors, of a movie, you'll lower the bitrate?

Maybe slightly... but not much. MPEG encodes color information at 1/4 the resolution of luminance, so the bitrate devoted to color is already very low.

I have noticed that some bright objects (sunny windows, illuminated faces) from scenes transcoded by DVD Shrink seemed to look more washed out...

This could be a requantization artifact. Some of the finer detail which adds "texture" to an otherwise smooth surface may disappear after requantization.

I think it's called PUMPING... It's when the backgrounds (especially dark reds and browns) look like they are moving in blocks... You also see this affect very clearly with clouds on the intro of many movies...

This is called "blocking", I think, and it is a typical requantization artifact. MPEG video is encoded in 8x8 blocks, and after compressing the content of each block, the horizontal and vertical boundaries between them may become more noticable.

"Pumping" occurs when you start compressing P-pictures: the quality gradually deteriorates due to error accumulation (described in my previous post) and then suddenly jumps back to normal at each I-picture. The interval between I-pictures is typically 1/2 second.

The second issue is when a scene cuts back and forth as it does when two people are talking... That you get annomolies like a single frame looks like it's averaging two different shots...

This is not an artifact of requantization, which can only work on each frame independently - it cannot average between two frames. I don't think this can be caused by DVD Shrink.

Is it possible to take out whole frames of action sequences? I'm curious to see how a motion scene would looke with 1/4-1/3 of its frames removed completely

It is possible, and this is what occurs during still picture compression, which removes all frames except the I-picture. It should also be possible to remove only the B-pictures, leaving 1/3 of the video remaining, but needless to say the result would be choppy: I don't think this a useful option!

Would it be possible for DVD Shrink to compress very dark macroblocks more than lighter ones?

Yes - this may be worth investigating. However as ddlooping points out, there is some disagreement about whether dark scenes or bright scenes look better after compression. I expect this depends more on your television and brightness/contrast setting than anything else.

Concerning this discussion, I'm not sure that reducing the compression in "action" scenes helps to get a better dvd...

I agree. The compression has to come from somewhere! Action scenes, being high-bitrate, are far more compressable than other scenes, therefore to avoid compressing them would require making big sacrifices in the slower scenes.

It seems reasonable that errors in slow scenes would be more noticable?

dragongodz: you indicate differently - that a small decrease in compression of high-bitrate scenes may increase overall quality. Do you have any more information on this?

suggestion: discard high frequencies in dct (blocks) during requantization

This is what requantization does.

suggestion: requantization with custom quantization-matrices. Users can choose which qmatrices they like

This may be a good idea, but virtually impossible for the typical user (myself included) to understand...

suggestion: target filesize catchup done per GOP instead of per frame as it is currently

It is already done on a GOP basis. This is only necessary if you don't do a deep analysis, and DVD Shrink encounters a scene which doesn't compress as well as predicted.

If you do a deep analysis, this can never happen.

I like the idea about certain regions (borders) being compressed more than others

I have been thinking about this, and it seems like a foolproof way to improve quality in the middle of the frame where it matters. I will definitely make this an option in the next version of DVD Shrink. It also has the advantage of being really easy to implement ;-)

If a "minimize error" option was included that would do extra processing to decode the original and compressed frame for comparisons, I would use it, even if it drastically increased the encode time

I will try and put this option in as well. Encoding will take significantly longer than it does now, but output quality should rival that of InstantCopy.

Currently I consider these last two suggestions the best ones to pursue. I'll start work on these shortly. In the meantime, please keep the ideas coming! [bold]Note his reference to InstantCopy, pretty hip I'd say! [/bold]




_X_X_X_X_X_[small] [bold]GO VOLS![/bold]........Dell Media4600, XP home,Pentium 4 @2.80GHz/800Mz, 512MB, 280 HD w/8MB, 17" flat panel, AIO-A920, 8x DVD-ROM, integrated 5.1 audio, HP dc4000, Plextor PX-708UF[/small]

 

BigO,
Noticed the site earlier with the forum with Shrink. I hope he pulls it off. I think he pretty much has his mind set already. Note he chose two suggestions to implement. No new additional options, just hopes to improve quality with necessary options entailed. Noticed he didn't mention DVDCopy2.

Where have you been hiding?

 

Just finished rebuilder/CCE, hoping for a go, used tray player to preview after using remake, it looked good. We'll see, I've got my fingers crossed. I also suggested to retain menu function after re-authoring to Mr. Shrink after reading this. Whether he'll take it into consideration or not, who knows?

 

[bold]Also saw where author of rebuilder is talking about replacing audio tracks ,check it out:[/bold]I think what's really needed is just the ability to replace audio-tracks! That means the user can demux an audio-track, reencode it with e.g. BeSweet (at a lower bitrate) and then remux it to the DVD-structure. So you would only have to offer 2 options:
- demux a selectable audio-track from the DVD to a file
- remux a selectable audio-file to the DVD (replacing to old audio-track & maintain sync)

I'm already talking about this feature with the authors of VobBlanker and DVD-Rebuilder. The author of VobBlanker says that he is willing to add it and do the work, but he hasn't the knowledge about demuxing/remuxing audio. He's looking for someone to help him. [bold]The search continues. BTW, where you been?[/bold]
_X_X_X_X_X_[small] [bold]GO VOLS![/bold]........Dell Media4600, XP home,Pentium 4 @2.80GHz/800Mz, 512MB, 280 HD w/8MB, 17" flat panel, AIO-A920, 8x DVD-ROM, integrated 5.1 audio, HP dc4000, Plextor PX-708UF[/small]

 

Off helping the needy newbies. Have been tied up for a few days though and not on the forums. I told Sir Sophocles that the 2 of you need to come out and visit among the mortals a bit for the fun of it. All the advanced work is just that, work.

 

Pop_Smith
I was burning at 4 x on Ricoh disc.
As I mentioned I only had this problem on the last two disc (out of a 5 disc set) of Taken. I personally think that since it only occurred on these last two disc and has "Never" occurred on any other burn, it probably was an error in the source disc.
Could that be possible?

I was burning on my NEC 2500A which has the latest firmware.

As far as slowing down the burning speed, this burner has been able to burn at 4x on everything except it burns at 6x on Imation Disc. The top burning speed on this drive is 8x.

I will keep you all informed if I encounter this error again and maybe we can pin point it.

I really enjoy these threads and the reason I have not chimmed in more is that this stuff you all are doing with rebuilder etc is way over my head.

I am still a instant copy and Recode 2 man.

I noticed on the Mr Shrink's forum that several people said he was the author of Recode 2. He never did deny or admit it though.

I knew that the two were simular in appearance and the way they worked, except being able to retain the menu in recode and not in Shrink.

I have got a problem with my task bar retaining the quick lanch icons and have not figured out what is wrong yet.

Is this the place to present this problem.

I have downloaded FoxFire and trying it to see if it will retain the quick launch icons (IE will not).

I think it is something that has happened when I got rid of some spyware that I had.

 

Guess one could say the taskbar problem is connected. A bit of a stretch, but since you were downloading video software...
Are you saying the launch items were left on the bar by installation or they won't go off when closed. A lot of programs load the taskbar without giving a choice. Under toolbars, on right clicking the bar, uncheck quick launch and XP will normally hide the icons on the right. If not you will have to go into settings. Hope you have XP. Might be an idea to add the OS to your specs.
_X_X_X_X_X_[small][bold]'brobear'[/bold]

[/small]

 

So guys how's the old thread keeping? I have to remember to pass this way from time to time.

[bold]I personally think that since it only occurred on these last two disc and has "Never" occurred on any other burn, it probably was an error in the source disc.[/bold]

Good assessment, even good media can be stored improperly and turn bad as a result. Ricoh however makes good media so if more than one batch of the same turns out bad then you need to reexamine where you're buying from or how you store it.

 

soph,
What I was attempting to say is this:
I have quick launch enabled for my taskbar.
I have the icons for my programs that I use all the time such as IE, Outlook, Desktop, etc on my taskbar.
When I restart my computer, the quick launch option is cancelled and all the icons that I had on my taskbar are no longer on my taskbar.
I have to right click the taskbar, click the quick launch option and they come back on my taskbar.

Everytime I restart the same thing happens.

 

Gentlemen,
Look what I found from Kellys Korner.

http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/taskbarplus!.htm

I have run the program to repair my taskbar. Will let you know if it works.

Thought you all might like to look at this program as it does a lot of good things.

Tom

 

TMc

Interesting, I'm always up and ready for a new software.

 

My taskbar problem is still not solved. Kelly at Kellys Korner is working on it for me. I will advise what the problem is when he solves it.

He tells me that I am not alone, that this problem is the biggest problem of the week.

I am wondering if it had something to do with the latest windows update. Seems as though the update happened about the same time my problem surfaced.

Tom

 

[bold]The debate rages on, the latest: [/bold] They tested all programs with the DVD "Titanic", a 190 minute movie that requires the bitrate to be reduced from roughly 4.3 Mbit/s to 2.5 Mbit/s to fit on a DVD+-R. So note that the quality results might be different if the movie wasn't so long. This movie also has a peculiarity; the extras and the main movie are in the same titleset. Test system was a P4 2.5, 512 MB, WinXP.




code:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overall
Ranking (100 max) Quality Speed Features Ergonomics

1. InstantCopy 8.1 88 96 64 90 92

2. Nero Recode 2 86 87 80 97 80

3. DVD Shrink 3.17 85 87 95 87 60

4. CloneDVD 2.0.7.3 84 80 98 81 80

5. DVD Fast Copy 81 85 83 70 70

6. Maximum Copy 77 73 100 65 72

7. DVD Copy 2 Plt. 75 75 84 63 75

8. Movie Jack DVD XL 74 81 60 66 75

9. ReJig 0.5e 73 70 80 72 75

10. Roxio Creator 7 71 75 75 50 74

11. X-OOM Movie Clone+ 65 59 81 54 80

12. DaViDeo 3 onDVD 51 44 50 58 80

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Their quality notes for DVD Shrink were: Artifacts with fast movements, but only little background noise. Note, dvdcopy finished 7th, while recode and shrink almost in a virtual tie with recode slightly ahead. Pinnacle IC 8 finished 1st.