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Which Transcoding Tools Produce The Best Picture Quality.

Discussion in 'Copy DVD to DVDR' started by Sophocles, Jun 5, 2004.

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  1. S-Y-K-E-S

    S-Y-K-E-S Guest

    I've tryed over at least 15 other programs & found that only 3 were worth mentioning

    I know I'm new to the forum but not new to the backup game, some of you are right & some of you are just followers, DO SOME REAL TESTS !!
    TRY 3 HOUR MOVIES FOR COMPARASION !!

    I took 3 movies that were about 3 hours long with all the extras & MENU & stuff
    (Return of the king,Tupac:Resurection,Armageddon)& was amazed with the results ... Top 3 were ...

    (1) DVD Shrink 3.1.7
    (quality is awesome,bright,clear alittle blocky rareley) but is very flexible & lets u choose where u want quality (main movie,menu's or extras) Plus is got its own built in ripper

    (2) Elby's Clone DVD 2 2094
    (Quality is also awsome, but alil mushed up & dull But it still great !!
    but on longer movies it doesn't have the ability to let one select if more quality should go to main movie or extras or bonus features) this is where DVD shrink kicks in.

    (3) DVD2ONE 1.40 is another good 1 but last on my list, pic quality is beautiful,& clear but the program darkens the picture just to hide the blocks or pixelization so u dont see it resulting in a darker film

    All in all I'd stick with DVD Shrink 3.1.7
    TAKE IT FROM A PRO
    Hope i have been helpful to all the videophiles & addicts
    Please remember my 3 tests are based on 3 hour movies & that you may notreally notice a difference if u test it out on a normal 90 minute or even 2 hour movie
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2004
  2. 64026402

    64026402 Active member

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    Seems you have already shot yourself in the foot.
    You halve already admited to having quality problems with Shrink and Elby yet everyone here participating knows that the better programs have no such quality issues.
    Rebuilder/CCE is the accepted high end quality leader.
    DVDcopy2 ranking close to CCE.
    Many rank Pinnacle high in the list.
    DVD20ne is acceppted by most as top quality picture with fast encoding.

    I cannot dispute any of these. Like you I started out defending DVDshrink. But the facts have already been solidified in the quality arena at this point.
    DVDshrink is moderate quality at best.
     
  3. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    S-Y-K-E-S

    [bold]some of you are right & some of you are just followers, DO SOME REAL TESTS !! TRY 3 HOUR MOVIES FOR COMPARASION !![/bold]

    You didn't read the entire thread did you? If you did then you'd know that we tested DVD Shrink over and over again. If you take a little time and read closer you will also notice that the movie most of us used for our tests was LOR III,Return of The King which is 3 hours and 20 minutes long. With Reuilbder/CCE the result were so good that it was impossilbe to see any difference with the naked eye. Shrink only rendered a dull and unrewarding result. Some of us may have been right and perhaps even followers but I am certain that you are wrong.

    Don't get me wrong, I still use shink as a diagnostic tool to help determine the audio content or the basic DVD layout. Shrink is a marvelous tool when one considers it's free but I wouldn't use it for anything that requires any serious compression, it just isn't good enough. It simply doesn't hold a candle to DVDrebuilder with CCE in any area accept speed.

    [bold]TAKE IT FROM A PRO[/bold]

    You want us take your word that you are a serious verteran, but everything that you wrote makes you sound like a Newbie.


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    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]

    "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2004
  4. siber

    siber Regular member

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    Harsh.., Sophocles. Remember, it's sunday.

    S-Y-K-E-S, why did you pick such a gdmn difficult nickname. I hate to type with both hands.
     
  5. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    Ok siber I get your point, S-Y-K-E-S have a pleasant Sunday.

    Siber, don't bother typing names just copy and paste.

     
  6. TMcCallie

    TMcCallie Regular member

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    Soph, guess you told SYKES. At least he could have been a little more diplomatic with his posting.
     
  7. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    If you guys think I'm going to let this one pass, you probably think shrink is the best back-up tool out there (I don't care what day it is). Sykes, you just want to incite, that's the only possible reason for your post. You care nothing about actual video quality and the truth. If you just came here to spout off confrontational drivel, blah blah blah, go somewhere else, We don't need ya. We've had a couple of others like you, they didn't last either. As sophocles said, you didn't bother to read the posts. ALL our tests were done with 3-4 hour movies. I did one of 254 minutes, put that in your shrink and smoke it. Comparisons have been made with split screens and increased magnification combined with clear and consise information sharing, not the "I said it so it must be true" theory that you seem to subscribe to. A lot of us stayed up all nite on more than one occasion to report back to the rest with our findings. The consensus has been rebuilder/cce, Intervideo dvdcopy2, and Pinnacle Instantcopy8. Have you tested and compared these programs, because I can assure you, we all have tried and tested shrink. Don't get me wrong, I, like many others, got my start on shrink and decrypter. As freeware they are the top of the heap, but don't even try to tell me shrink beats out any of the aforementioned software, and especially don't tell me anything til you have used them in a purely unbiased comparison as we have. You said[bold]"hope I've been helpful"[/bold], what a crock, you came here to start crap and you know it. Everything in your manner doesn't just suggest, it practically screams it. You call yourself a pro, it's been my experience people who toot their own horn do so because no one else will.
    _
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG] [bold]GO VOLS![/bold]........Dell Media4600, XP home,Pentium 4 @2.80GHz/800Mz, 512MB, 280 HD w/8MB, 17" flat panel, AIO-A920, 8x DVD-ROM, integrated 5.1 audio, HP dc4000, Plextor PX-708UF[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2004
  8. 64026402

    64026402 Active member

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    He probably had heat dams and laser flaring messing up the testing.
     
  9. 64026402

    64026402 Active member

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    Arrgh.
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]Donald[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2004
  10. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    S-Y-K-E-S did you ever try stirring a hornets nest with a stick? I suspect that it's analogous to what you've stirred here.

    Some quick advice, if you want to get along with the members of this forum. Don't jump into something at the middle or the end and start calling it down with no clue as to what is going on.

    [bold] I've tryed over at least 15 other programs & found that only 3 were worth mentioning[/bold]

    I for one would like you to provide a list of the other twelve progarms that you felt weren't worth mentioning, we may not agree.

    [bold]some of you are just followers[/bold]

    When you've finished compiling a list of those other programs, perhaps you could also provide the names of the followers.

    [bold]I know I'm new to the forum[/bold]

    You would have done well to have observed that fact before you began insulting its members.

    [bold]TAKE IT FROM A PRO[/bold]

    You are no doubt a "legend in your own mind."



     
  11. S-Y-K-E-S

    S-Y-K-E-S Guest

    I've tryed every program from dvdxcopy to that fake clone dvd at clonedvd.net & even instant copy & intervideos dvd 2, also nero recode 2 (it couldent even handle armageddon) i've even tryed german ones you shit talkers nerver even heard abou the pic is usually ok with intervideo dvd2 it makes video have lil lines in in at times, so i say to all a goodnight & get off the next mans nutts !! The only 1 I havent tryed is DVDREBUIDER, But i've made enough KDVD'S WITH CCE 2.67 to tell you all it aint worth waiting 4 hours for a movies & then adding audio after, go here www.kvcd.org
    PS ... I was sharing my experiences & I dunno why some feel like your gettin raped in the arse or somethin, jus tell daddy to leave you alone at night or at least tellmom that daddy rapes you, don't take it out on me,
    internet tough guys LOL what a joke
    No wonder all your registered users are leaving to KVCD.ORG
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2004
  12. 64026402

    64026402 Active member

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    Oh gee whiz don't go. You were starting to make so much sense.
     
  13. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    S-Y-K-E-S

    "I've tryed every program from dvdxcopy to that fake clone dvd at clonedvd.net & even instant copy & intervideos dvd 2,[bold]also nero recode 2 (it couldent even handle armageddon)"[/bold]

    I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but DVD Shrink and Nero Recode have the same author. And it couldn't handle armageddon? Recode is superior to DVD Shrink, thanks to its superior editing choices, but that's all.

    Now just give me the list of the 12 unknown programs that you've tired and the one of all the followers
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]

    "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2004
  14. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    sykes, it's obvious that my theory was correct. You have nothing to offer, except a hard time. You haven't used any of these programs, if you had, as sophocles said earlier, you would know recode(which IS superior)does have the same bunch as shrink and if recode wouldn't handle it neither would your precious shrink. Of the others you mentioned, you couldn't even cite any specifics or proof. Hell, my little 6-yr. old niece can say she did it. I know this to be a fact because if you had used them you would agree with the findings. One other matter, you better be glad it's internet cos when you start talkin' about someone's Mom and Dad you'd get your ass kicked but good where I live, which btw, you wouldn't last a day. My gut feeling tells me KVCD.ORG probably got tired of your antics and so you're out looking for a new home, else why would you be here if it's so beneath your (lol) standards. PS- anytime you want to call this tough guy out you just let me know, I'll be more than happy to oblige.
     
  15. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    S-Y-K-E-S,
    I can appreciate that you were trying to be helpful, and there's always room for that. However, the tone of your post:
    is very inflammatory and, regardless of your intent, insulting. I'd also like to point out that while I agree about needing to include long movies to get a complete picture of each program's strong and weak points, it's no more complete than just testing with high bitrate (but shorter) movies. In fact I'd add a third category of animation to that list.

    I also don't think you've given CCE a proper test if all you've worked with is the KVCD matrix. That matrix is almost identical, although from my own personal test (and to my eyes of course) slightly inferior, to CCE's Ultra Low Bitrate matrix. If you don't have a movie that requires an incredibly low bitrate there's no reason to use a matrix like that. I certainly understand why you would want to avoid the long encode times you mention, although mine don't take that long. Still, if your hardware isn't up to faster encodes I'm certainly not going to suggest that anyone else should tell you what kind of speed is acceptable or that anyone's opinion but your own is suitable for you to pick your own backup solution.

    There is one thing that I will take major exception to however. You say your tests are "Real Tests", but you haven't explained your exact methods. What you've described seems like an important piece of the kind of tests I was working on, but ran out of time for due to other projects. I'll stick by a comment I made in the past that I've never seen a truly scientific comparison (my definition of a Real Test)between programs, because the standard method used has been to encode single movie (or single type of movie) with several programs and visually compare the results. Unfortunately, this will tend to play to the weaknesses of some programs and the strengths of others. Without testing different movies with different challenges (high bitrate, long, animation, & different combinations of the 3) it's impossible to make an accurate blanket statement about any method. In order to avoid human error, I'd also say it's important to use a utility like SSIM for AviSynth, which compares the actual luma and chroma data and weights it according to the results of a study by the Video Quality Experts Group, so you can get an objective POV to include as well. Finally, any remotely scientific study requires a large enough group of testers to hopefully eliminate error and some kind of blind testing process to ensure before-hand knowledge of the video's source doesn't affect the outcome.

    You may think this means I take issue with every test I've ever seen, and you'd be right. Given that your tests meet as many of these qualifications as most others I've seen, I don't give yours any less weight, however I don't give them any more either, and that's not much. If dual layer burning wasn't just around the corner, I'd be hopeful that someday we might be able to arrange such a scientific comparison, but since most people will be focusing on getting big enough discs to avoid encoding altogether, I see that as very unlikely.

    Everyone Else,
    Chill Out! I can understand being insulted by what you saw as an attack on your own abilities, and I sympathize with defending yourselves, but that's not an excuse for acting like a pack of wild dogs! If you don't agree with (or like) S-Y-K-E-S, that's fine, but it's not an excuse for making post after post full of personal attacks.
     
  16. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    Vurbal, I will apologize to you and AD for my violent reaction to sykes. You are correct in that it's not what this forum is intended. However I cannot apologize to anyone who flings parental insults at me with reckless abandon. I suspect he got the reaction he wanted and for that , I regret my choice. You will not see any more retorts from me because I will not respond to any more of MR. sykes comments.
     
  17. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    Fair enough ;)
     
  18. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    Vurbal

    I'm sorry too. Darn Vurbal, if I'd known you were going to do all this so eloquently and so clearly stated, i'd sat quietly and let you do your thing. We've probably become so used to discordance because of this thread that it annoys us when we're dragged back into it again.

    S-Y-K-E-S

    Many of us didn't agree with each other when we began this project, and we don't always agree with each other now, but we respect each other. I think most of us even like each other. When you so carelesly insult something you didn't contribute too that we put so much time and effort into, bad move. If you want to start over, I suggests that you drop this thread and start from scratch.
    _
    Vurbal "Pack of wild dogs?"
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]

    "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2004
  19. Praetor

    Praetor Moderator Staff Member

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    WHOA people .... chillax .... everyone's got their opinions regarding "best" and we should all just whatever works for us.... now y'all play nice, hear?
     
  20. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    Okay that might have been an overstatement ;)
     
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